Re: The Australians I met, if only they had seen this now, when I travelled round that country for two years would rise up and revolt like Eureka if they had only seen this!
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Re: The Australians I met, if only they had seen this now, when I travelled round that country for two years would rise up and revolt like Eureka if they had only seen this!         

Group: aus.aviation · Group Profile
Author: The Toad
Date: Mar 17, 2007 00:28

>"The Toad" wrote
>> "Prophet of Doom: Islam's Terrorist Dogma In
>> Muhammad's Own Words" http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
>

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 01:42:59 -0400, "Chief" excite.com>
wrote:
>Yeah! That's the website that kept me from being a Moslem!
>
>I shied away from Christianity because of the following "fair and balanced"
>interpretations:

So what's your argument?

Moral equivalence? Do you believe modern Christianity
and fundamentalist Mohammedism are equally bad so it
doesn't matter which group holds power over us?

The philosopher Bertrand Russell wrote "Why I Am
Not a Christian". In it, he criticized the moral
character of Jesus as portrayed in the Bible
and argued against the proposition that Jesus
was, if not the son of God, at least the most
moral of men.

Russell certainly managed to make his case but
it was surprising how minor some of the moral
failings he had to cite actually were. For
example, Jesus' talking too much about punishment
in hell, cursing a fig tree because it bore no
fruit, and the bit about casting devils into
(innocent) swine which died as a result.

Think how much easier it would have been for
Russell, if he had to make the case against
Mohammed! Pedophilia, rape, slavery, genocide
against the Jews of Medina, incest by taking
his adopted son's wife, torture of prisoners to
extract loot, and a host of raids and wars in
which his followers raped, murdered and enslaved
the Jews and polytheistic Arabs of Arabia.

Chris Winn often calls Mohammed "the most evil
man who ever lived" but that's overstating the
case. Mohammed was about as evil as the average
despot in the ancient world -- more or less in
the same league as Nero and Caligula but quite
a bit worse than Ceaser and Pompey.

Even Adolf Hitler comes across as a somewhat
less evil individual than Mohammed although
with his greater resources murdered far more
people than Mohammed could in the backwardness
of 7th century Arabia.

What I think is the critical and fundamental
difference between the religion of Christians
and religious/political system of Mohammedism
is their potential for reform or lack thereof.

Most of the parts of Christianity that the modern
world finds hard to deal with are from the old
testament. The Jesus portrayed in the gospels
represents a breaking away from the harsher
parts of the old testament. And Jesus being
executed long before him and his followers
obtained any sort of political power means
they never had a chance to setup an authoritarian
state and the detailed laws and regulations
to run it.

Of course subsequent authoritarian Christian
rulers did and claimed their rule and laws were
based on the Bible. But those rules and laws
are clearly the work of fallible men and their
interpretations and justifications for the
rules can always be challenged by those
who follow (dangerous as that often is).

This makes reform much easier to accomplish
in Christian societies than in Mohammedan
ones.

In Mohammedan societies, any alteration or
softening of the rules and laws attributed to
Mohammed run immediately into the problem that
the laws and customs are supposedly direct
instructions from god and delivered thru
Mohammed on how all mankind should behave
for all time.

Any challenge to the barbarism of sharia
"law" is interpreted as a direct assault
on Mohammed and Allah which usually brings
fatal results. It is their dogma that Islam
cannot be changed and that Mohammed was the
last of the prophets. That slams the door
firmly closed to the possibility of any
meaningful reform.

I've found the following books useful.
******************************************
ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY

"Why I Am Not A Muslim," by Ibn Warraq
---------------------------------------------------------
Modeled on Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not A Christian,"
Warraq's book provides a good overview in about 360 pages.
Warraq writes from the perspective of an ex-Muslim who now
considers himself "a secular humanist who believes all
religions are sick mens' dreams -- demonstrably false
-- and pernicious."

"Sword of the Prophet: Islam, History, Theology, Impact
on the World," by Serge Trifkovic
--------------------------------------------------------
Trifkovic's slightly shorter book covers much the same
ground as Ibn Warraq but with more emphasis on the threat
Islam and our ignorance of it poses to civilized Western
societies and less on refuting points of Islamic dogma.

"Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World's
Fastest-Growing Faith," by Robert Spencer
---------------------------------------------------------
Spencer's 200 page book covers much the same ground as
Trifkovic does in "The Sword of the Prophet" but leaves
the impression he is less familiar with the material and
has culled his material from better authors like Warraq
and Trifkovic. Still a book worth reading if nothing
better is available.

"The Truth about Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most
Intolerant Religion," by Robert Spencer
---------------------------------------------------------
Like Craig Winn's "Prophet of Doom" described below,
Spencer's recent 224 page book concentrates on the life
of Muhammad as portrayed in the Moslem "Traditions" but
does it less comprehensively and without Craig Winn's
penetrating insight. On the other hand, Spencer's "Truth
about Muhammad" is readily available in most places while
Winn's book is currently out of print. Both books provide
non-Moslem readers with essential information about
Muhammad's career first as a marginally successful preacher
in Mecca, and then following his flight to Medina as a
sort of gangster/warlord who terrorized and conquered
most of Arabia during the last ten years of his life.

"Prophet of Doom: Islam's Terrorist Dogma In Muhammad's
Own Words," by Craig Winn
----------------------------------------------------------
Winn's massive 700 page book with an additional 170 pages
of appendices is a real challenge for its readers, and it is
very difficult to find a printed copy, but can be read online
at http://www.prophetofdoom.net/. It does something neither
Warraq's nor Trifkovic's book manages to do: put translations
of the disorganized verses of the Koran and the -- often
contradictory -- sayings attributed to him into the context
of Muhammad's life as it is portrayed in the Moslem "Traditions."
Winn covers Muhammad's early life as an abused orphan
abandoned by his mother after his father's death, eventual
marriage to a rich widow, and the dream in which he imagines
talking to (the angel) Gabriel after which he begins preaching
and recruiting followers in Mecca, apparently as a challenge
for control of the Ka'aba shrine and its revenues. After
a decade of moderately successful recruiting, the richer
members of the Quraysh, Muhammad's clan, offered him a deal
(money and power), if he would stop disrupting their Ka'aba
business and would worship their gods Al Lat and Al Uzza
for a year they would worship his god (probably not Allah)
for a year -- this is the "Satanic Verses" incident that got
Salman Rushdie into so much trouble. It was a deal Muhammad
accepted and honoured for about a year.
Disillusioned by this doctrinal about-face, and by
Muhammad's new claim of a "Night's Journey" from Mecca to
Jerusalem and then to Heaven on the back of a magic flying
donkey, many of his followers abandoned him. To compound his
troubles, his uncle and influential protector, Abu Talib,
died. He then tried to get a rival tribe, the Ta'if, to take
his side against those of his own tribe who opposed him, the
Ta'if rejected him and to make matters worse the secret of
the treasonous negotiations with his tribe's enemies got out.
Finished in Mecca as a prophet, he hung around the Meccan
fairs asking the visiting Arab tribes to believe him and
protect him. Eventually, he recruited new followers from the
Khazraj and Ansar, two Arab tribes living in Yathrib (Medina).
The Quraysh of Mecca, learning that Muhammad was planning to
move to Yathrib and make war upon them, tried to assassinate
Muhammad but he escaped in the middle of the night.
From the time he arrived in Yathrib and for the first time
had armed men under his command, Muhammad operated as a blend
of gangster, pirate, and warlord. He ordered the assassination
of his critics, attacked caravans in the holy month of Ramadan
to get booty and slaves, raided neighboring towns, drove all of
the Jewish tribes out of Yathrib (Medina) and took their homes
and property as booty for his followers -- except for the
unfortunate Qurayza (one of the Jewish tribes living in Yathrib).
Under Muhammad's orders, the men and boys of Qurayza,
numbering 800 to 900, were systematically beheaded and the
bodies cast into trenches dug in the marketplace of Yathrib
(Medina) while Muhammad looked on. The women and children were
enslaved and divided up with the rest of the booty -- Muhammad
taking his one-fifth share of the total. The Qurayza women were
then raped by the Muslims who only hours earlier had murdered
their husbands, brothers, and sons. For himself, Muhammad
selected a Qurayza woman named Rayhannah bt. Amr.
In the ten years from when he arrived in Yathrib until his
death, Muhammad personally participated in about 26 military
expeditions and sent out another 35 armies and raiding parties
for a combined total of 61 (according to some traditions 48
expeditions for a combined total of 74) -- about one raid or
military expedition every two months.
This includes the military expedition against the Byzantine
(Christian) settlement of Tabuk in Syria, this was the largest
and best equipped army Muhammad ever lead, consisting of about
30,000 men. The expedition against the Byzantine Christians
took place in the year 630 A.D. -- a full 465 years before
Pope Urban II called for the First Christian Crusade against
Muhammad's followers.
Winn's book also provides about 100 pages of material
translated from the Koran and the "Traditions" organized
by subject. As good as it is, Winn's book does have some
faults. He writes from the perspective of a extremely
religious Christian which more secular readers may find very
disconcerting. However, I know of no more comprehensive
treatment of this subject.

"The Life of Muhammad" by Professor Alfred Guillaume
----------------------------------------------------------
Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasul Allah", written around 750 A.D.
is the only account of Muhammad's life and the formation
of Islam written within two centuries of Muhammad's death
in 630 A.D. Ishaq's original version has been lost and so
Moslems, and everyone else, must rely on a significantly edited
and sanitized version written by Ibn Hisham in 830 A.D. "The
Life of Muhammad" is a translation into English of Hisham's
edited version of Ishaq's original. This 813 page book,
published in 1955, was long out of print and Moslems have
tried to conceal it entirely from Western eyes by destroying
every copy they could get their hands on. Oxford University
Press has reprinted it and it is now readily available at a
reasonable price. It is an invaluable reference for anyone
who wants to understand the nature of Islam and personality
of its founder.
Most striking to readers will be the seemingly endless
list of murders, assassinations, raids, battles and conquests
recorded in the more than 450 pages describing the last decade
of Muhammad's life -- a record that makes him a "religious"
figure like none other.

"What the Koran Really Says: Language, Text, & Commentary,"
edited with translations by Ibn Warraq
----------------------------------------------------------
Although providing more details on some things mentioned
in Warraq's "Why I Am Not A Muslim," this 780 page book
is primarily a collection of academic writings on language
and other historical issues. It is not useful for anyone
wanting an introduction to Muhammad's career or Islam's
beliefs.
***************************8

Toad-Beneath-the-Harrow
--------------------------------------------------------
DEATH OF A POET
"We carried Ka'b's head and brought it to Muhammad
during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying
and told him that we had slain Allah's enemy. When he
came out to us we cast [Ka'b] Ashraf's head before his
feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been
assassinated and complimented us for the good work we
had done in Allah's Cause. ... and there was no Jew in
Medina who did not fear for his life."
- Tabari VII:97 quoted on page 378 of Craig Winn's
"Prophet of Doom: Islam's Terrorist Dogma In
Muhammad's Own Words" http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
--------------------------------------------------------
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