Article on JB's Incident - ATSB Prelim. Findings
  Home FAQ Contact Sign in
aus.aviation only
 
Advanced search
POPULAR GROUPS

more...

aus.aviation Profile…
 Up
Re: Article on JB's Incident - ATSB Prelim. Findings         


Author: Pits
Date: Aug 29, 2008 19:40

On Aug 30, 7:51 am, Snapper y7mail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Sylvia Else wrote...
>> Yes, it does seem a bit of a fluke, though at that point in time, there
>> would be significant airflow towards the hole.
>
> Yeah, maybe.
>
> Another thing, I read the article in the paper and viewed the photos online. The
> hole in the floor seemed significant in size. The newspaper reports (which is
> all we have to go on unless the man himself wishes to comment) suggest that the
> crew wasn't aware of what damage had been caused til they landed. Now, I'm
> wondering if they were able or unable to peer into the hole. If so would they
> not have seen the opening in the fuselage?
>
> To Marty, I saw a report on the news last night (Ten, it might've been) where
> they had an animated "reproduction" of the events. According to it the base of
> the cylinder ruptured. If that did happen then it's not surprising that it took
> off like a bullet.
>
> I once witnessed an oxy bottle (oxy acetylene type) fall off the back of a ute. ...
Show full article (1.91Kb)
no comments
Re: Article on JB's Incident - ATSB Prelim. Findings         


Author: David Lesher
Date: Aug 29, 2008 21:50

I found the interior damage amazing. Not the extent, but rather the
clean shear lines of the falsework where the tank hit it.

Further, the loss of the suspect tank out the same hole.

What was not amazing but was admirable was the crew response. From C2
and Table 3; 22 seconds after the event, they had throttles back, speed
brakes out, and 15 seconds later they were on their way down. [Wonder
what the airspeed timeline looks like..?]

Also amazing was no one was killed by the cylinder playing rocket.
> I once witnessed an oxy bottle (oxy acetylene type) fall off the back
> of a ute. It hit the ground, the neck snapped off. It then shot down
> the hill like a bullet and disappeared into the fog. We found it 100m
> away half buried.

In the US, the common ~150 cm tall "welding tank" is called a "K bottle".
At 200 bar, there's a hell of a kick in one. Breaking the valve off
gets you exhaust departing at supersonic speeds and sometimes a deaf
witness. They can fly for good ways.

In the 1970's, Baader-Meinhof set off a bomb at a US/NATO base. It did
little direct damage but the knocked-over K bottles, uncapped, went
through several cement walls and demolished cars a half-klick+ away...
no comments
Re: Article on JB's Incident - ATSB Prelim. Findings         


Author: Ned
Date: Aug 29, 2008 22:51

David Lesher wrote:
> I found the interior damage amazing. Not the extent, but rather the
> clean shear lines of the falsework where the tank hit it.
>
> Further, the loss of the suspect tank out the same hole.
>
> What was not amazing but was admirable was the crew response. From C2
> and Table 3; 22 seconds after the event, they had throttles back, speed
> brakes out, and 15 seconds later they were on their way down. [Wonder
> what the airspeed timeline looks like..?]
>
> Also amazing was no one was killed by the cylinder playing rocket.
>
>
>> I once witnessed an oxy bottle (oxy acetylene type) fall off the back
>> of a ute. It hit the ground, the neck snapped off. It then shot down
>> the hill like a bullet and disappeared into the fog. We found it 100m
>> away half buried.
>
> In the US, the common ~150 cm tall "welding tank" is called a "K bottle". ...
Show full article (1.74Kb)
no comments
Re: Article on JB's Incident - ATSB Prelim. Findings         


Author: Sylvia Else
Date: Aug 29, 2008 23:05

Ned wrote:
>
> There was a dull thump as the cylinder hit the roadway - base first -
> then silence. Packed her into the Transit and we were on our way. Phew.

The cylinder was subsequently sold, reconditioned as an Oxygen cylinder,
and installed you know where....

Sylvia.
no comments
Re: Article on JB's Incident - ATSB Prelim. Findings         


Author: Snapper
Date: Aug 29, 2008 23:07

Ned wrote...
> PS You don't think gravity may have played a role?

Undoubtedly. It just seems such a fluke that a large object like that getting
flung around like it did was able to drop back down the same, supposedly
smallish hole and out the fuselage.

Mind you, I'm not questioning what happened, just commenting on what appears to
have happened, is all.

Imagine if it had been one of the cylinders further back. Someone would've
gotten a rather rude shot getting thumped in the arse...
no comments
Re: Article on JB's Incident - ATSB Prelim. Findings         


Author: Snapper
Date: Aug 29, 2008 23:09

veritas wrote...
> Yes Phil, indeed, it did end well. My next query is; what made the O2 bottle
> fail? I anxiously await further investigator's reports.

I assume that like all pressure cylinders that it has regular testing and is
done hydrostatically.

Also, presumably each cylinder is connected to the manifold via isolating valves
and have check valves? Otherwise this incident would have vented the contents of
the other cylinders somewhat quickly.
no comments
Re: Article on JB's Incident - ATSB Prelim. Findings         


Author: Atheist Chaplain
Date: Aug 30, 2008 02:44

"David Lesher" panix.com> wrote in message
news:g9ajis$2u9$1@reader1.panix.com...
>
>
> I found the interior damage amazing. Not the extent, but rather the
> clean shear lines of the falsework where the tank hit it.
>
> Further, the loss of the suspect tank out the same hole.
>
> What was not amazing but was admirable was the crew response. From C2
> and Table 3; 22 seconds after the event, they had throttles back, speed
> brakes out, and 15 seconds later they were on their way down. [Wonder
> what the airspeed timeline looks like..?]
>
> Also amazing was no one was killed by the cylinder playing rocket.
>
>
>> I once witnessed an oxy bottle (oxy acetylene type) fall off the back
>> of a ute. It hit the ground, the neck snapped off. It then shot down
>> the hill like a bullet and disappeared into the fog. We found it 100m ...
Show full article (2.22Kb)
no comments
Re: Article on JB's Incident - ATSB Prelim. Findings         


Author: Rob
Date: Aug 30, 2008 05:00

Snapper wrote:
> Sylvia Else wrote...
>
>> Yes, it does seem a bit of a fluke, though at that point in time, there
>> would be significant airflow towards the hole.
>
> Yeah, maybe.
>
> Another thing, I read the article in the paper and viewed the photos online. The
> hole in the floor seemed significant in size. The newspaper reports (which is
> all we have to go on unless the man himself wishes to comment) suggest that the
> crew wasn't aware of what damage had been caused til they landed. Now, I'm
> wondering if they were able or unable to peer into the hole. If so would they
> not have seen the opening in the fuselage?
>
> To Marty, I saw a report on the news last night (Ten, it might've been) where
> they had an animated "reproduction" of the events. According to it the base of
> the cylinder ruptured. If that did happen then it's not surprising that it took
> off like a bullet.
> ...
Show full article (1.45Kb)
no comments
Re: Article on JB's Incident - ATSB Prelim. Findings         


Author: Rob
Date: Aug 30, 2008 05:05

Ned wrote:
> David Lesher wrote:
>> I found the interior damage amazing. Not the extent, but rather the
>> clean shear lines of the falsework where the tank hit it.
>>
>> Further, the loss of the suspect tank out the same hole.
>>
>> What was not amazing but was admirable was the crew response. From C2
>> and Table 3; 22 seconds after the event, they had throttles back, speed
>> brakes out, and 15 seconds later they were on their way down. [Wonder
>> what the airspeed timeline looks like..?]
>>
>> Also amazing was no one was killed by the cylinder playing rocket.
>>
>>
>>> I once witnessed an oxy bottle (oxy acetylene type) fall off the back
>>> of a ute. It hit the ground, the neck snapped off. It then shot down
>>> the hill like a bullet and disappeared into the fog. We found it 100m
>>> away half buried.
>> ...
Show full article (1.93Kb)
no comments
Re: Article on JB's Incident - ATSB Prelim. Findings         


Author: Rob
Date: Aug 30, 2008 05:10

Snapper wrote:
> Ned wrote...
>
>> PS You don't think gravity may have played a role?
>
> Undoubtedly. It just seems such a fluke that a large object like that getting
> flung around like it did was able to drop back down the same, supposedly
> smallish hole and out the fuselage.
>
> Mind you, I'm not questioning what happened, just commenting on what appears to
> have happened, is all.
>
> Imagine if it had been one of the cylinders further back. Someone would've
> gotten a rather rude shot getting thumped in the arse...
>

Then again if a depressurisation event was in progress then the air
escaping through that hole would have helped direct the bottle back
towards the hole and out of the aircraft?
no comments
1 2 3 4 5 6 7