On 16 Mar 2007 15:20:26 -0700, 911falseflag@gmail.com wrote:

And you could use Klingon disrupters to make the job much easier.

Wow, 10 seconds. You've only got another 59 minutes and 50 seconds to
go.

But you don't have a clue as to what is going on inside the structure
during that delay time, do you?

That would be your department, Jake.

Sort of fond of Latin, are we? Who are you trying to impress?

So why is that?

That there were lots of loud noises associated with the collapse of
the building but none of them were caused by explosives.

Sorry, Jake, I never said such a thing.

And much of what you "discovered" was never kept from the public,
Jake. And what you seem to think is so damning (the responder's
statements released in 2005) don't say anything like what you claim
that they say.

Your "new" evidence doesn't change anything about the events of that
day that has been reported ad nauseum since 9/11.

Name one.

You don't even understand my comment, do you? The City of New York
and the NYFD held those statements, Jake. Why don't you ask them why
they did that?

No, Jake, I don't. Your "new" testimonies don't conflict with
material that was released soon after 9/11.

Nothing.

And neither do the "surpressed" statements, Jake. Except in your
vivid imagination.

They weren't.

The stated reason is to protect the privacy of those involved. I
suspect the real reason is that the statements reveal how totally
unprepared the government of New York City was for an event like 9/11,
and how deficient the systems of the various emergency departments
were.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/I05_0034.htm

"The Fire Department contends that the privacy exception applies to
the portions of the 911 calls that are in dispute; that the
intra-agency exception applies to the disputed portions of the
dispatch calls; and that both these exceptions apply to portions of
the oral histories. The Department also contends that the law
enforcement exception applies to the six potential exhibits at the
Moussaoui trial, but it does not identify those six exhibits or say
which categories they belong to. Thus, we first consider the
application of the privacy and intra-agency exceptions to each
category of materials, and then discuss the law enforcement exception.
A. The 911 Calls The Fire Department does not now oppose disclosure of
the words spoken in the 911 calls by 911 operators, or by the eight
men whose families are seeking disclosure. Thus, the only issue before
us is whether the disclosure of words spoken by other callers would
constitute an "unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.""

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/13/nyregion/nyregionspecial3/13records.html?ex=1174190400&en...

"The oral histories were gathered in 2001 on the instructions of
Thomas Von Essen, who was fire commissioner on Sept. 11."

If there was something to hide, Jake, why did the Fire Commissioner
even have them recorded?

Could have fooled most of the readers here, Jake.

You have no evidence that it wasn't. You have no evidence of
anything.

They weren't suppressed. Again, I'll ask you. If there was something
to hide, why did the NY Fire Commissioner even have them recorded?

If you're going to throw stones, Jake, don't live in a glass house.

But he doesn't say that they were caused by explosives, Jake. In
fact, he says that he equates it to the "building coming down and
pushing things down" or to "electrical explosions".

"seemed" means what it means, Jake. At least to normal people. People
like you do like to make up your own definitions for words sometimes.

It doesn't.

Which was the fall of the south tower.

Ah, yes, good old Lou. You do realize that this statement isn't from
your "suppressed" testimonies, don't you, Jake?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=57424&page=8

"Originally, on September 12, 2001, People Magazine ran a few short
paragraphs about the 20-year veteran New York fireman hearing what
sounded like bombs exploding in the north tower.

Short and sweet, that was it. A few short words about bombs exploding,
but words that were repeated over and over again in story after story
by writers and broadcasters who never even bothered to talk to him in
the first place.

Furthermore, Cacchioli was upset that People Magazine misquoted him,
saying "there were bombs" in the building when all he said was he
heard "what sounded like bombs" without having definitive proof bombs
were actually detonated."

http://www.911myths.com/html/quote_abuse.html

"...I asked the senior man working to take the elevator.

He entered the elevator with the last company that went up. They went
up to the 24th floor or the 22nd floor and the company was getting
off. I think it was the truck company at that time, because he grabbed
the last guy getting out, who was the irons man and he said "You gotta
stay with me, because I need tools in the elevator."

At that time, the doors closed and that's when the power went out.
Which, what we found out later was when the south tower fell down.
They were able to force their way out of the elevator and for some
reason the guy from the truck, from 13 truck, went to the right and he
went to the left and found a stairwell and he was able to make it out.

Q. Who is "he"?

A. Louie Cacchioli."
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110285....

It's sort of difficult to tell one loud noise from another.

It wasn't my "transformer theory", Jake. And what Lou Cacchioli heard
was the collapse of the south tower.

Strange that she tells a somewhat different story here:

http://www.amazon.com/September-11-History-Dean-Murphy/dp/product-description/03...

Teresa Veliz

A Prayer to Die Quickly and Painlessly

Teresa Veliz was the facilities manager for Clearforest, a software
development company that had offices on the 47th floor of the North
Tower. Because she had two narrow escapes on September 11--one on an
elevator and one on an escalator--she worries that she cheated death.
She has been unable to return to work, and only conquered her frequent
anxiety attacks by going back to Lower Manhattan and retracing her
steps of that morning. There with her mother at her side, she cried
until she could cry no more. "I won't lie to you," she says. "That day
turned my life upside down."

I can still hear that horrible noise in my ears. "Bang! Bang! Bang!
Bang! Bang! Bang!" It was the sound of my elevator hitting the walls
as it dropped from just above the 47th floor. The further down it
fell, the fainter the bangs became--and the more terrified I felt. I
had just stepped off that elevator, maybe nine or ten seconds earlier,
leaving a handful of people continuing up to higher floors. I got off,
turned the corner and opened the door to the ladies' room. I said good
morning to a lady sitting at the mirror when the whole building shook.
I thought it was an earthquake. Then I heard those banging noises on
the other side of the wall. It sounded like someone had cut the
elevator cables. It just fell and fell and fell.

I began to cry. "Oh, my God, I just got off that elevator!" I said.
"That could have been me." I prayed that those other people had gotten
off on the 48th floor before the elevator dropped. But I didn't have
much time to be upset because the building shook again, this time even
more violently. The lady at the mirror grabbed me from behind and held
on for dear life. She was sobbing and screaming. I didn't even know
her name. She worked for a bank on the same floor. We would pass from
time to time in the hallway or in the ladies' room and exchange
pleasantries. But I was all she had right then. I had to be strong for
her.

"We have to leave," I told her.

"No! No! We can't go out there," she screamed.

"I have to go and see who is in my office," I said. "But I'll take you
to your office first. I promise I won't leave you alone. Don't worry,
everything's going to be all right."

I dropped my things on the bench in the bathroom--my handbag and the
morning supply of bagels and muffins. I opened the door and there was
a puff of dust so I turned back and got some tissue to cover our
noses. I then walked the lady down the hall toward her office, my mind
in rapid-replay mode. I was retracing my steps, the ones that got me
off the elevator with only a few seconds to spare. I had stopped at
Bon Ami to get the muffins. I remember the line was long. I was very
impatient. I never had to wait so long before and I wanted to be at
work on time. Then I went to American Cafe for the kosher bagels. Some
people in my office only eat kosher. I had to wait there too. Finally,
I waved some money in the air and slapped it down on the counter. "I
can't wait," I announced and I rushed out the door with the bagels.
When I entered the lobby of 1 World Trade Center, I pulled out my ID
and swiped it through the security reader. I could see the elevator
was there, the doors still open. Oh, great, I thought. The elevator is
going to leave without me. But for whatever reason, it didn't. I ran
and got in. It wasn't crowded. "Today is my lucky day after all," I
thought as the doors closed and we headed up directly to the 44th
floor, where I switched to a waiting local elevator for the final
three stories up.

I felt okay leaving the lady at the bank. There were about 50 or so
people there, so she had plenty of company and would be taken care of.
I didn't worry much more about her. But I was worried about my own
office colleagues. I felt it was one of my responsibilities, making
sure everybody was okay. It came with the job title. I was chief
caretaker, ordering supplies, buying breakfast--and taking control in
an emergency. I am strong when I have to be for other people. It
wouldn't be until much later in the morning that I let down and
allowed myself to feel all the pain and anxiety that was rushing
through my own mind and body.

"Katherine! Katherine!" I began screaming as I opened the door to my
company's offices. But Katherine, I later learned, was still in the
lobby waiting for an elevator when the plane hit. She had turned
around and left the building safely.

Then I heard the voice of another colleague, Karin. "No, T, it is only
me," she said, using my nickname. It was still before nine, it was
Election Day and quite a few people had morning meetings away from the
office, so Karin was alone, except for an electrician who had been
working in the hallway. She was so scared that she was hiding under a
table. "What do we do?" she asked.

"We evacuate," I said.

I told Karin to gather up her things, that I would be back in a
minute. I had to run back to the ladies' room and get my purse. I
didn't want to leave without my ID. The electrician tried to talk me
out of it, saying it was dangerous to go back there. But I felt okay
about it because I had just been there. When I got back from the
ladies' room, Karin was in her office talking to her mother on the
telephone. Her back was to the window. I was looking at her when
something fell behind her outside. Was it a body? A piece of the
building? The airplane? I wasn't sure, but I knew things shouldn't be
falling like that. "Please hurry up!" I said to Karin, not saying
anything about the object outside. I knew that would have sent her
into a panic.

I quickly looked around the office for anything we might need to take
if this turned out to be a big fire. My CD player was on my desk with
my collection of CDs. Guns N' Roses. George Michael. A bunch of movie
soundtracks. They can be replaced, I thought. Then I saw a laptop. It
belonged to the director of finance who was visiting from Israel. I
knew it had all of the company's important financial information. I
stood there and spoke to it. "I hope you will be here tomorrow," I
told it. "I can't take you. I can't be weighed down. I am sorry." We
closed all of the doors to the inside offices, put some paper towels
over our noses and hurried out.

We took staircase B. It was slow moving but orderly. Clearly, my
survival instinct kicked in. I was as cool as a cucumber. I also had a
bit of mother hen in me. I was very protective of Karin. We are about
the same age, early thirties, and about the same height, but I am
heavier and stronger. She wears a size 2, I wear a 14. And I tend to
take charge in situations like this. At one point, when the flow of
injured people in the staircase started to get to Karin, I shielded
her. "It's okay, Karin," I said. "Just turn your head." We saw the
lady from the bathroom upstairs. She was having a bad panic attack.
She was crying hysterically. One of the emergency workers was
escorting her down the left side of the stairs, which was reserved as
a passing lane for the injured. We also stepped to the right when a
blind man and his dog wanted to get by.

As I looked up behind me and down ahead of me, I heard people getting
upset about the slow pace. "Why are we stopping?" they were saying. I
said to myself, It's okay. Let them speak. So long as no one reacts
and pushes their way down. At some of the slowest moments, I got
impatient too, even looking enviously at the injured people who had
priority to go ahead of us. Sometimes it would be like an ambulance
racing down a busy street, when some cars pull behind it and take
advantage of the open road. Only this time the cars were anxious
people in the line. I told Karin not to worry, that I would get her
out one way or the other. I would fight for us if I had to. I began
devising a plan in my head. Karin would have a heart condition. She
would pass out. I would tell everyone that we had to get by. But by
the 18th floor, a fireman announced that it was clear sailing the rest
of the way. No more stopping. And he was right. The pace picked up
considerably and I never had to resort to the theatrics. I said
thank-you to that fireman. I don't know if he heard me, but I was glad
I said it.

At one point, we had to move to the right to let one of the many burn
victims pass. She didn't know it, but this woman was an incredible
source of strength for me. Her back was badly burnt, and so were her
face, neck and ears. But she wasn't crying or screaming in pain. She
might have been in shock, but even so, she walked with an amazing
sense of dignity. Her chin was up, her shoulders back and eyes
straight ahead. Don't lose it, T. Don't lose it, T, I said in a pep
talk to myself after she went by. Later, I worried that I had let down
a fireman, but it seems he gave me an impossible assignment. He had
opened the door, I think it was at the 33rd floor, and looked right at
me. "You," he said. "Tell No. 5 that the doorman is here." Smoke was
coming off the floor into the stairwell and someone yelled, "Close the
door!" The fireman was gone. Everyone around me started to repeat the
instructions, like schoolchildren trying to memorize the words to a
song. "Tell No. 5 that the doorman is here. Tell No. 5 that the
doorman is here. Tell No. 5 that the doorman is here." But there was
no No. 5. I carefully noted the numbers on the helmets of the guys
coming up. Some had no numbers, at least not ones that I could see.
The firemen with numbers were 23, 39 and 6. So the message never got
relayed. I hope it wasn't important.

We finally reached the bottom, dumping out on to the concourse level.
The sprinklers were on, so it had gotten pretty ..."

You'll have to buy the book to find the ending....

Again, that's not what he says here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/history/story/2007/01/070117_sept11.shtml

You do get stuck on things, don't you, Jake?

What is there to dispute, Jake? She heard the sounds of two massive
buildings collapsing.

They tend to do that when hit by millions of tons of building comes
crashing down from above.

And again, the outer walls would tend to "explode" outward when
stressed by the collapse of the millions of pounds of building that
was coming down on them.

"They" is no one, Jake, in this case. The gentleman is mistaken in
his analysis of what he saw. Neither he, nor you, has any evidence to
back up his interpretation of the events.

Do you understand what the word "like" means, Jake?

None of which mean what you imagine that they do.

He heard the sounds of a very large building collapsing.

I don't deny what they say, Jake. It just doesn't mean what you want
it to mean.

Actually it doesn't.

Mr. Ober also said this:

"As we were walking into the building, we just heard a huge bang."

And what was it that he heard? He continues:

"As we looked up, it was someone who had jumped,
god knows how far up."

But let's go back to what he really said:

"Then we heard a rumble, some twisting metal, we looked up in the air,
and to be totally honest, at first, I donÂ’t know exactlyÂ…but it looked
to me just like an explosion. It didnÂ’t look like the building was
coming down, it looked like just one floor had blown completely
outside of it. I was sitting there looking at it. I just never thought
they would ever come down, so I didnÂ’t think they were coming down. I
just froze and stood there looking at it."

No evidence of an explosion there at all.

That's your department, Jake.

Which means nothing, Jake. Unless one takes everything that Griffin
says as gospel like you do.

Because its reality, Jake.

Have you seen your psychiatrist yet, Jake?

"appeared to be at first", Jake. Not "was". It wsa the collapse of
the building that he was describing.

You're the one with the silly ideas, Jake.