> Awaken21 wrote:

>> On May 12, 3:15 pm, RaaN hotmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>On May 12, 12:14 am, Robert Epstein verizon.net> wrote:

>

>>>>^@%%>---*=# wrote:

>

>>>>>"Tang Huyen" gmail.com[remove]> wrote in message
>>>>>news:7oidnYEf8oeZYLvVnZ2dnUVZ_rjinZ2d@supernews.com...

>

>>>>>>liaM wrote:

>

>>>>>>>And what of jazz and voodoo ?  What do you
>>>>>>>have to say about that, Mr. Huyen ?

>

>>>>>>Jazz, or any performance art in general,
>>>>>>including theatre and classical music, is very
>>>>>>much like Bushido, in that all of them pivot
>>>>>>on the ability of the performers to put
>>>>>>themselves aside temporarily and assume
>>>>>>another character during that time, let that
>>>>>>other character fill them up, and perform
>>>>>>according to that other character (let the
>>>>>>other character run them). They can even
>>>>>>perform "against type", in that the other
>>>>>>character is radically different from them,
>>>>>>even contrary to them. Greatness is in
>>>>>>harmonising themselves so that they and the
>>>>>>other character blend together seamlessly
>>>>>>and swiingly, and are not separate entities.
>>>>>>The ensuing synergy creates the flow and
>>>>>>incandescence that great performances are
>>>>>>known for.

>

>>>>>>I don't know whether voodoo death is for
>>>>>>real, but something resembling it though
>>>>>>vastly less severe occurs on these boards.

>

>>>>>>Fu and Jigme are locked (have locked
>>>>>>themselves) in a tight and unenviable spot:
>>>>>>trying to argue the worth of their life (to
>>>>>>justify and validate themselves) by way of
>>>>>>somebody else. They have freely given up
>>>>>>their independence and self-valuation to
>>>>>>somebody else, and have to leverage the
>>>>>>worth of their life (which is the existential
>>>>>>issue par excellence) by way of somebody
>>>>>>else, whose look on them is the very worth
>>>>>>of their life to them, no less. This is the
>>>>>>classic idealism in the German sense: the
>>>>>>intuition creates what it intuits. They have
>>>>>>invested from their own side in somebody
>>>>>>else the power to look at their life and create
>>>>>>the value of it to them. They have left to
>>>>>>themselves no power to look at their life
>>>>>>and evaluate it and its worth to themselves.
>>>>>>Somebody else by default (by delegation
>>>>>>from them) has monopolised it, with their
>>>>>>full knowledge and consent. That is their
>>>>>>self-stuff invested by them, and it is in the
>>>>>>control of somebody else, whose say in the
>>>>>>matter is the final word, to Fu and Jigme.
>>>>>>This is why Fu and Jigme have to chase that
>>>>>>somebody else around and around, year after
>>>>>>year, to get his approval (which constitutes
>>>>>>their self-valuing to them), though in
>>>>>>appearance they bash him relentlessly. They
>>>>>>invest the power of life (if not of physical
>>>>>>life, at least of the value of life) in somebody
>>>>>>else, who has control over it, *by remote* so
>>>>>>to speak. In a sense they throw themselves
>>>>>>away and let somebody else do the valuing of
>>>>>>their life for them in their stead.

>

>>>>>>In Japanese Buddhism, there is the distinction
>>>>>>between self-power and other-power. Fu and
>>>>>>Jigme, faithful Japanese Buddhists (who
>>>>>>pretend to go physicalist, to protect the
>>>>>>innocent), go all the way for the latter.

>

>>>>>>(Jigme, by abusively adopting the nym of
>>>>>>DharmaTroll, has cruelly robbed himself of
>>>>>>the pleasure of bashing Japanese culture in
>>>>>>general and Japanese Zen in particular as
>>>>>>borrowing hugely from their Korean
>>>>>>counterparts. He is also *locked up in a time
>>>>>>capsule from late 1999, frozen solid some
>>>>>>eight years and a half ago*, around the time
>>>>>>of his brutal crash, which occurred in late
>>>>>>Summer 1999, but the real DharmaTroll has
>>>>>>no reason to be hung up on that time frame,
>>>>>>as nothing important occurred to him around
>>>>>>that time, more specifically he underwent no
>>>>>>personality change around that time).

>

>>>>>>All very zenny, as Jen would say.

>

>>>>>>Tang Huyen

>

>>>>>when you get into creativity mode deep enough
>>>>>it's not that you exchange one character for another
>>>>>but it is such that you do indeed relinquish that ' i '
>>>>>thought that * i * spoke of earlier and you become
>>>>>creativity itself. when i sit at the easel and paint
>>>>>or when i pick up the guitar or sit down at the
>>>>>piano the creative muses coagulate and the
>>>>>personality based on genetic heritage and that
>>>>>narcissistic core of the ego take a back seat to
>>>>>enjoy the creative aspects of imagination's
>>>>>expression.  there is probably no better way
>>>>>towards relinquishment of the ego than through
>>>>>pure creative expression even though that very
>>>>>same creative expression can slip off that razor's
>>>>>edge and create super egos at times like in the
>>>>>case of rock stars.

>

>>>>that's the problem with the path of art; it gives enlightenment when its
>>>>particular device is practiced, whether it's writing poetry or playing
>>>>the guitar; but it usually remains localized and doesn't interpenetrate
>>>>all the areas of living that bring one back down to the ego; mostly
>>>>because art doesn't have real-life consequences in the same way that
>>>>life does.

>

>>>>Robert

>

>>>>= = = = = = = = =

>

>>>I found that playing a keyboard, even as ploddingly inept as I am,
>>>quickly becomes like a meditative exercise and I lose all track of
>>>time.  So why should sitting meditation be different such that it
>>>should "interpenetrate" all the areas of living?  The more often one
>>>discovers that state of absorption and nonduality by whatever
>>>modality, in my opinion means the more accessible it is likely to be
>>>in other areas and activities.
>>>--
>>>RaaN

>

>> I'd disagree. No other kind of activity delivers away from the
>> activity to the degree that sitting meditation does. I'm not sure why
>> that is, but I completely understand why the Buddha only taught forms
>> of seated meditation, there's a huge difference in efficacy away from
>> the activity. It's not just the state of absorbtion during the
>> activity which is considerable, it's the emotional balance and self
>> discipline away from it where seated meditation excels and differs
>> from other activities like playing an instrument or drawing, or other
>> focused activities.

>
> I agree with you, but it's hard to find buyers.   :)