On Feb 12, 12:31 pm, "Elisi"
gmail.com> wrote:> On Feb 12, 5:21 pm, burt1...@
hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Feb 12, 12:41 am, "Elisi"
gmail.com> wrote:>
>
>>>> On Feb 11, 12:28 pm, "Elisi"
gmail.com> wrote:>
>
>>>>>> On Feb 11, 11:11 am, "Arbitrar Of Quality"
wildmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:>
>>>>>>>> And here we get independent confirmation that Spike did, indeed, save
>>>>>>>> the world. Independent confirmation that he, with his amulet ex
>>>>>>>> machina, was the one who destroyed the Ubervamp army in "Chosen," not
>>>>>>>> the Slayers, as some people around here have tried to claim.
>
>>>>>>> It was a collaborative effort. The Slayers fought back the attacking
>>>>>>> army, and Spike closed the Hellmouth for good. I think they all
>>>>>>> deserve full world-saving credit.
>
>>>>>>> Participating in this discussion one last time, I'm sorry that
>>>>>>> "Chosen" wasn't successful in converying what it was going for to
>>>>>>> everyone. It's clear to me on that count, at least.
>
>>>>>>> SPIKE: No, you've beat them back. It's for me to do the cleanup.
>
>>>>>> And, again, if all Spike did was cleanup, he wouldn't get credit from
>>>>>> higher powers for saving the world.
>
>>>>>> I can sort of see being fuzzy about what happened in "Chosen" (though
>>>>>> it was always perfectly clear to me - the Slayers only killed 50 or so
>>>>>> Ubervamps out of thousands), but here, it's clear and unambiguous.
>>>>>> Spike saved the world. Therefore, Spike destroyed the Ubervamp army.
>>>>>> Not the Slayers.
>
>>>>> _Buffy_ gave him the amulet. She could have used it herself - or given
>>>>> it to Faith. And in both cases we would have had a woman saving the
>>>>> world. The point isn't who wore it, the point is that the amulet was
>>>>> clearly part of their plan.
>
>>>> That's not clear at all. There's no indication anywhere that Buffy
>>>> knew what the amulet was going to do, or what it would take to
>>>> activate it. In fact, Spike seems surprised when the amulet goes off.
>
>>> Um, did you miss this part?
>
>>> SPIKE
>>> (looking at the amulet worn around his neck) Not to be a buzzkill,
>>> love, but my fabulous accessory isn't exactly tingling with power.
>
>>> BUFFY
>>> (psyching herself up as she looks around slack-jawed) I'm not worried.
>
>>> SPIKE
>>> I'm getting zero juice here, and I look like Elizabeth Taylor.
>
>>> FAITH
>>> Cheer up, Liz. Willow's big spell doesn't work, it won't matter what
>>> you wear.
>
>>> If he - and they - weren't expecting it to do *anything* - then why
>>> are they talking (and being worried!) about it doing nothing? They
>>> expected it to do *something*, but knew they needed the army of
>>> Slayers as well. It couldn't be clearer.
>
>> I'm talking about when it activates. He looks surprised *then.*
>> There's no indication that they knew what the amulet was going to do.
>> And you know what? Even if they did, it's irrelevant. It was still
>> Spike and the amulet that incinerated the entire Ubervamp army. The
>> Slayers were irrelevant.
>
> You made me think of this:
>
>
http://rahirah.livejournal.com/248542.html(no spoilers - although
> there might be some in the comments)
>
> You will never convince anyone that you're right. We will never
> convice you that you're wrong. Let's just leave it, m'kay? It's a TV
> show!
When did I ever say it wasn't?
> (For me it's very simple: Spike is a Big. Damn. Hero. So is Buffy. The
> end.)
Spike's heroism (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with what we're
discussing here.
