Sorry about the late response elsworth, had some Google Groups issues.
Ted turned me on to this new, free usenet service so I am good to
go. :)
> When we first rented it, it was the cart only. (Off-topic: I never
> understood how people got away with stealing the game manual from
> rental shops.) It took us a little while to figure out how to play it
> because we had never played a real-time strategy game before. I was
> always surprised that it didn't spawn a series of games or at least
> clones from the competition. Anyways, we never even knew that you
> could give an existing unit new orders until after I was able to
> purchase the game (used but at least I got a manual this time).
Yeah, I guess I could take a look into it if I run across the game
without the manual. Maybe there's a decent enough FAQ that's not 250
pages long that would just teach me the basics.
> This is still a game that I will play from time to time against
> somebody that knows how to play because it's so much fun but noobs
> don't really stand a chance against experience. That includes PC RTS
> game players usually because they spend most of their time bitching
> about the interface / gamepad and don't seem to grasp the arcade
> aspect of it. You actually control a robot/fighter-jet transformer
> directly that not only deploys units but can be used directly in
> battle.
Well, I think there's a Genesis emulator out there that supports
Netplay. I've always wanted to try that out. In fact, on my forums I'm
attempting to try to organize a weekly MAME Netplay get together.
> The computer is a good opponent for a beginner in one-player mode.
> Actually, it's quite good even against an experienced player but I get
> a little tired of it's single-minded sameness strategy. When it
> decides it wants a base, it will never give up trying! It's not easy
> to use misdirection on it. But even if you don't have anyone to play
> against, playing in single-player mode is fun.
Sounds like Nobunaga's Ambition, the AI can just be ruthless at times.
That's a great one too, if you haven't ever tried it, give it a shot
one
of these days!
> The only other game like this that I ever saw on Genesis was Dune 2.
> But it's a single player game and there is no arcade element. Herzog
> Zwei is the best RTS on Genesis, period.
I think I have Dune 2, but have yet to try it out. There's also a Sega
CD version, IIRC.
> I recommend picking this one up if you ever see it if it's reasonably
> priced. Even cart only, you can figure it out. You can always ask
> around for help!
True, true.
> Yeah, Renovation, they always seemed to have the strangest games, not
> always a bad thing. I haven't played it in a long time. The graphics
> are a lot simpler than Herzog Zwei and probably don't stand up well
> today. It's all turn-based, too.
I remember it having some sort of hexagon-style movements and whatnot.
This was just looking over the screenshots though, so I may be
mistaken.
> It's really best with four players
> which is why I don't play it anymore. Nobody gets together anymore to
> play games. It's all over the internet now.
Well, it's not a bad way to go, assuming everyone has a headset.
Problem
is, virtually nothing on the PC seems to support the headset in the
application, so you have to get another app to do just the headset
feature and then try to get everyone else to do so as well. That's
what's pretty hip about Xbox Live, it's all already setup.
> I think there is a Master of Monsters for Playstation but I've never
> tried it. I know there was an import for Saturn but I don't read
> Japanese.
Not sure on that, but I think I vaguely remember some talk of the
Saturn
version.
> I think the original is the best one on the Genesis. Maybe it's the
> music or maybe it's just because it was something new, I don't know
> for sure.
I've heard this as well, that the first one was the best. They say 2
was
ok, and 3 wasn't so hot.
> I also enjoyed Rash 3D on Playstation because it's possible
> to race forever (literally!) -- the tracks are are huge and all
> interconnected -- plus it has awesome music. My all-time favorite
> Rash is the one for N64, though, because you can play with four people
> at once and the computer really makes you fight to win, you can't get
> away with just avoiding fights.
Oddly enough, I was just reading about these other versions you just
mentioned at this Road Rash tribute site:
http://www.welcometotherash.com/
Check it out at some point, it's pretty thorough.
> You'll definitely need to spend some time with this one if you get
> it. It's a fairly deep game for a cart.
Would be nice if someone could translate the Mega CD version, I hear
it
is absolutely amazing.
> Yeah, I think so. I can remember playing all night then trying to
> sleep afterwards. When I would close my eyes, I would "see" those
> twisting charts!
It's still better than the nightmares I have about Sega Touring Car's
framerate. ;)
> I've never made it all the way to the end in two-player. The other
> player can never make it that far. The rising water level is as far
> as any partner I've had can ever make it. They always end up getting
> trapped and drowning, even if I let them be Nightcrawler. Maybe we
> should have used a Genie, too. I've made it to the end by myself and
> even once after the other player used up all of the other lives but
> that wasn't easy.
I've beaten it in single player mode with and without the GG, but with
multiplayer mode, it's impossible to do without the GG, even if both
people are really good at the game. Give it a shot with the GG, and a
second player if you get a chance...it's really fun.
> That was Renovation, too, wasn't it?
I believe Fighting Masters was Treco(they also brought us Street
Smart).
> All of the old fighting games
> before Street Fighter 2 were real button-mashers. We enjoyed 'em
> because we didn't know any better!
Some had some decent gameplay, but FM was simply just all about the
grappling. You hit them to stun them, then you throw them. I don't
know
why it was so much fun...but it was. ;)
> Yeah, I feel like such a nerd saying how much I hate their company.
Ah, don't, everyone finds them to be the worst...it's not just the
random few of us anymore. ;)
> But they really used to make the most original games! Now if it's not
> a sequel of something they made money on before or a clone of
> something somebody else made money on, forget it.
Yup.
> Plus, I hate how
> they leveraged Sega out of the football game market with money because
> they knew Sega was making a better game. As much as I liked the first
> John Madden game for Genesis, sometimes I wish they had never made it
> just because it seemed like the root of their "evil".
Sega's 2K or ESPN series was consistently getting higher marks than
Madden and that scared them, so they pulled a Sony and just bought
their
"win".
> Yu Yu Hakusho is a great multi-tap versus fighting game for four
> players. It plays a lot like Guardian Heroes for Saturn (both games
> were made by Treasure).
I've messed around with it via emulation, as there's no way I can
swing
the money for the cart version, and it's really impressive. You can
clearly see where GH started out when you play it.
> You're right, the six-button pad was great for fighting games. I wish
> they had used it better for sports games, though.
I wasn't real big into any of the sports games other than Cyberball,
the
first Joe Montana Football and then Tengen's RBI Baseball series. None
of them had any support for the 6 button pad that I can recall. I did
like how some games, like SoR 3, added in shortcuts to doing certain
things if you had a 6 button pad. That was great.
> I've never understood why game developers hide stuff in games. Let me
> have all of the characters and levels. At least, if you want me to
> earn it, unlock everything after I've played so many hours.
I don't mind an unlocking process that lets you purchase new
characters,
levels, etc. but these games where the developer just completely hides
and entire level or character that is only unlockable via beating the
game 36 times or just once on extra super duper unbelievably hard mode
is right out.
> Hah, yeah, I think I might even fire up the ol' Shark when I get home
> just for laughs. I loved the commercials for that game, too.
I really liked the guy who played Ghost, he did a real good job with
the
role.
> You have the second gun, too?! I thought I was the only one that ever
> sent away for it. I mean, the second gun that plugs into the first
> gun. I wonder if it's a collectible?
>
> I'm sure that I'm the only one that ever sent away for the link cable
> for Zero Tolerance. ; )
I got my second gun at a GameStop for, like, $3. Some idiot decided to
trade it in I guess. It'd say it is collectible just simply because it
was a mail order-only peripheral, much like your Zero Tolerance Link
Cable. They say you can make one of those link cables with a Genesis
controller cord...but I've never really looked into it. I doubt I
could
ever get anyone to come over and play it with me. ;)
> Nope, you didn't even need an internet connection at all. Just a
> phone line. You called in to a phone server. Once a match was found,
> the server would conference in the other player then drop out of the
> connection, leaving the two of you directly connected. When they
> first started, everything was direct-dial and response in the games
> was perfect. I even played a few games cross-country that were
> totally smooth.
Wow, that is just crazy. Sounds so cool, wish I could have gotten in
on that back in the day(and the Sega Channel too).
> The only problem was if you played somebody long
> distance, whoever was the original player got stuck with the whole
> phone bill. Not cool. You could set your preference for local
> challenges only but I never had many opponents locally.
It's the same way with the Netlink. In fact, I had to save up in order
to play with anyone. ;)
> Then XBand set-up a phone server called Nationwide. The way this
> worked was that XBand's phone server would stay in the conference so
> that both players would split any long-distance charges. Great idea,
> bad execution. The added phone magic meant lag-time in the controls,
> sometimes pretty bad. It made fighting games way too choppy. Of
> course, you could still do local matches and those still played great.
It's just incredible...I mean, even over high-speed DSL or cable I've
*yet* to play a 2D fighter over Live where the lag just didn't
completely ruin the match....yet somehow, they made it with with just
a phone line. Makes you wonder how much of the lag is due to Xbox Live
overhead.
> If I remember correctly, they could send program updates to your XBand
> cart. I always thought they should have given everyone a way to
> direct-dial once they went out of business. It would be so cool to be
> able to still play some of those games over the phone.
That's what's nice about the Netlink, well, if you now anyone locally
that is. You still can. Xbox Live is pretty much the same way with the
third party tunneling software. Even if MS shuts down Live for the
original Xbox, people can still play.
> The Saturn Netlink uses a lot of the same graphics as the XBand
> network when you link to play games. It's basically the same thing
> with true direct-dial.
Indeed. In fact, the only thing "Netlink" about it is the
browser...and even then, that's PlanetWeb. Like when you go into a
match with the Netlink all of the logos switch over to X-Band.
> I went out and bought a PC gamepad just to play Doom that way at my
> friend's house. They would network all of their PC's together. I
> always got the old spare PC but I was used to playing on a slightly
> smaller screen anyways. I used to replay on the 32X at the hardest
> level just to practice for those deathmatches.
I must have beaten Doom on 32X around 30 times. It. Was. Just. So.
Good! I liked how they had that one final bonus level if you made it
all the way through the game without dying...
> I remember when Incredible Universe (Radio Shack) was clearancing
> 32X's with Virtua Fighter for something like twenty bucks. I told
> everyone that I knew about it. They were all like, "32X? No way I'm
> buying that crap!" But I did manage to get some of my friends to buy
> it because they had played mine and new it was at least worth a
> Jackson.
I got my first 32X for $20 at Toys R US, it was just the system. I
started getting what we know today as the "white ribbon wire" issues,
but at the time noone knew what it was, or how to fix it so I ended up
giving it away(as well as the games, like an idiot). I got another one
at a pawn shop, but it already had those issues so I just took it
back. Years later a friend's brother's friend was just going to throw
his 32X away. It was complete, in the box, with Doom! I took it! From
there, I've rebuilt my 32X library, fixed any "white ribbon wire"
issues that have come up and have just enjoyed the fuck out of the
system.
> I think it's too bad that they couldn't have come out with the 32X at
> around the time they released Virtua Racing. And maybe did it for
> $99, too. But I guess that wasn't financially possible. Even so, I
> had a blast with my 32X. It held me over until I got my Saturn,
> another greatly unappreciated Sega machine.
>
The initial price tag of $150, with no game was, I think, they're
biggest mistake. They should have packed it with Doom, that game is a
system seller if I have ever seen one. I wanted to get one when they
dropped down to $79, but I still just never had the money. I really
wish I could have experienced the 32X when it was alive. I think back
then, a lot of these games would have just blown my mind...nowadays,
they are still impressive, but with all the newer stuff out there,
just not mind blowing. With that said, I am glad I bought my Sega CD
for $250 and got to experience it's entire lifespan...well, minus one
year(I got it a year after it came out). :)
Bel
