>
>>You whine all the time about how "people break rules and harm the
>>business", however in six years of lawsuits and bluster, you have not
>>shown one scintilla of real evidence to support your contentions.
>
> Time will tell how that plays out.
>
Well it's been nearly ten years you have been beating this same drum, how
much time do you need, another ten years? So far, not one scintilla of
evidence, not enough to even sustain your pleadings. It's not just bad
writing that's getting you thrown out, all of your allegations are
conclusitory in nature and totally unsupported. You will not survive a MTD
unless you have something besides a desire for discovery.
>
>>> Hell, Mystery didn't even begin making any real money until a few years
>>> after he did his first workshop, which barely covered his expenses.
>>> Doesn't mean it was a "hobby" to him.
>>>
>> Mystery started at about the same time you did, totally broke. Now he's
>> a success and has been for several years. Nobody pays any attention to
>> you because you are not a threat to them. Not economically, and not
>> legally. Can't be much of a guru living with mommy.
>
> When one gets laid regularly without having to give women free room and
> board, it's more "game" than if they have a six-fiure income, that's for
> sure. In Europe, some of the best-known seducers are hotel workers and
> others.
>
> A man has no need to bring a woman to his home. Such invasions of one's
> privacy are foolish, especially when dealing with women one has just
> picked up (as he bragged about).
>
I'm astonished at your attitude. You equate taking a girl home for sex to
"free room and board"? I'm speechless, that is the most stupid thing I have
ever seen come out of anyone's mouth, even yours. No wonder you never get
laid with that attitude.
>
>
>>>> As I said, the last time I looked that was the figure. I'll give you
>>>> the benefit of the doubt and say 250,000 copies and that every single
>>>> one of them was read cover to cover, which we all know is not true. It
>>>> does not change anything, the book has been out for what, six months?
>>>> Yesterdays news.
>>>
>>> Not even close, as people always want good information on how to get
>>> laid.
>>>
>> EXACTLY, there will always be a market for good information. Now all you
>> have to do is produce some, learn how to market and you are good to go.
>
> Armchair marketing 101 noted.
>
> My work is already very good, it's just worth the cost of a book, which is
> all any of this stuff is worth. Theories I develop wind up being sold by
> rival gurus within a year or two of my releasing them.
>
So you say, but you refuse to say who and what, so all we have to go on is
your words. And dude, that's not worth much after all your lying.
> Guys are having their love lives ruined by piss-poor advice from "brand
> name" gurus who are feuled by propaganda websites. Besides, the
> mainstream media pays more to its "gurus" anyway.
>
> On THIS group, people look for specific advice, and I give it, as do
> others. Money really doesn't mean much except to measure how much a guy is
> using it to get laid.
>
Almost without exception your "advice" consists of calling him stupid, or
some such, and slamming women as whores or sluts. That's not advice, and
does not help anyone. All that does is further show everyone why they
should not listen to you. Some of them start out by asking for comments
from everyone BUT you, and still you have your little axe to grind and you
throw your agenda out there where it's not wanted. This is the stated
reason for the creation of the other websites, discussion boards and groups
that you are banned from participating in. Your "advice" has been shown not
to be helpful, and all you do is insult women. That's not what it's about.
>
>>> There's also that little MAJOR MOTION PICTURE being made.
>>>
>> Good for them, but then it's not GAME OVER until it's out is it? And
>> even then, it won't be over, because dating is how men and women get
>> together, and teaching men how to be more successful will always be
>> necessary.
>
> If that were true, there would *never* have been an edge to gain by
> learning this stuff, since it was "always happening anyway.
>
Exactly, this stuff has been available ever since I was able to read
Playboy. And that predates you by a lot of years.
> This stuff is getting played out and the dating market is digesting it.
>
And every day, new blood is injected into the dating market. Fads come and
go, look at how many girls have joined and dropped out of the dating scene
in the last ten years. The Game will be a memory in a few months, and a new
crop of hotties joins the fray. As long as there are new girls joining the
fray, it will always be OVER for Game Over.
>
>>> There are many rAFCs who have no fear of rejection who still don't get
>>> what they want.
>>>
>> There are a lot of pilots that don't get to fly 767s too. Shit
>> happens....but if you work at it, you will succeed. If you sit at home
>> and growl on the USENET all the time, you will only be successful with
>> your "Hellen" tapes.
>
> They made enough money for both of us. Several thousand dollars, in fact,
> for about six hours in a studio.
>
But you are not getting laid while you are whining on USENET
>
>> If you have more 9s and 10s, that would make them more plentiful, thus
>> easier to succeed in. Your statement makes no sense. Hell I wish all
>> the 10s would stay single...LOL
>
> They are easier to get once, maybe twice (like the guy in Vegas), but
> literally impossible to keep.
>
I am a PUA, I don't want to keep them. I like the game, if I wanted a
relationship I would be married.
> One guy can't deliver what an open market of dozens or hundreds of men
> can.
>
> Marriage is for 7s.
>
Everyone does it eventually, the dating game can be pretty brutal, most
folks settle down after awhile. And thanks to no fault divorce, if you miss
them the first time they will be back...LOL
>
>>> Of course it can, and it has. Even if the "ratio" is still the same, if
>>> the average single person is hotter, then it becomes more difficult for
>>> those less hot to compete.
>>>
>> The self help material that's out there has as it's purpose, making guys
>> more attractive to the opposite sex.
>
> More deceptive. It's an illusion of being attractive. When women learn
> what the men are studying, they find the men less attractive. Otherwise,
> the women would be pushing men to learn this, and they aren't.
>
> Perhaps he can argue this with Dr. Phil.
>
Why? Because you can't handle the truth? I am busy when Dr. Phil is on so
I really don't know much about him or his show. It's called working, which
I really like to do. Perhaps you should try it sometimes.
>
>>So it follows that it will be easier for the guy that learns the material,
>>and more difficult for the guy that doesn't read it or can't master it.
>
> Not necessarily, since the material becomes worthless as it is overused.
>
Until a new crop of hotties comes along that is not familiar with it. Every
day thousands join the ranks of the available, and thousands go off the
market. It's an endless cycle that you don't seem to understand. But if
you had been out in the meat market for very long you would realize it
quickly. This is another indication that you are not out much and that you
don't participate in the dating game. First you can't afford to go out,
second you don't understand the dynamics of the meat market, and third some
of your writings have show just how little you understand women. Someone
that does do out a lot learns these things even if he's thick.
>> But according to you there are more attractive girls on the market now,
>> so the balance is restored.
>
> More attractive GUYS as well. THOSE guys (the 9-10s) benefit.
>
> A harsher version of Darwin's alpha male theory.
>
If marriage ended and was declared illegal, it would put exactly the same
number of men and women on the market. Don't you understand that? It would
not change the ratio one bit.
>
>
>>> Marriage is more and more only for the desperate. We now live in a
>>> hookup culture.
>>>
>> And that's what I like doing, hooking up. Perfect!!
>
> Fine if one wants an STD but no LTR.
>
PUAs are not by definition looking for LTR, they are playing the game and
looking to meet new people and score. THATs what it's all about. Once you
are in a LTR, you are no longer a PUA
>
>> Nope, he's trading money for the time he would spend learning this on his
>> own. Thus taking a shortcut to success. That's what money is for ya
>> know.
>
> When only 1 percent of the men are succeeding, 99 percent are not.
>
Where did you get the one percent figure? I have not seen anywhere that
only one percent of the guys being trained are being successful. If that
were the case, the entire industry would have collapsed a long time ago.
> You can't teach every man to be that 1 percent. The promises the gurus
> make will be more and more difficult to keep.
>
So far, the marketplace is showing that they are being successful. But
then, only a tiny fraction of the available men are being trained. I see
very few PUAs out in the clubs. It just doesn't seem to be making a
differance outside of maybe LA
>
>
>>> That presumes the coach is teaching something that works for the typical
>>> student, which is not the case.
>>>
>> Oh? You have proof that this is not working for the typical student?
>> The marketplace says otherwise.
>
> The marketplace has to do with sales, not followup.
If it was not working, the marketplace would not be rewarding these people
like it has been. Also disgruntled students would be filing suit to get
their money back. The only suits I have seen are yours, and a couple
between the different groups. According to The Game, they are mostly
dysfunctional people and in a lot of ways, very immature.
>
> A lot of the criticism of these products is suppressed by several means as
> well. Plus the students are mostly wealthy and already have a sure thing
> due to that.
>
And how do these people suppress the alleged fact that everyone that takes
these classes fails?
>
>>If the material was no good, then the students would be talking and
>>eventually the product would fail. Like yours did.
>
> My products never failed. They are still on the market and make money.
> Many gurus who make a lot of money can buy positive media, but that has
> nothing to do with the quality of their information.
>
They still sell a few copies of Mien Kampf too, but that does not mean the
book is a success now.
>
>
> The anonoymous coward's rabid-dog obsession with disparaging me is also
> noted, and that does cause damage, but it's also a reason I'm litigating.
>
The world trembles at the sound of your litigating.
>
>
> He's got money (or so he claims). ATMs are very popular I'm sure.
>
> My old wings moved on with their lives.
>
Perhaps you should try and replace them. If you were once successful and
now you are not, most people would look at that set of facts and try and
recreate that which worked for them.
>
>
>
> Adapting means discarding the methods that are currently being sold to the
> masses.
>
> My point exactly.
>
> The new methods that work will be those that even the PUA can't detect or
> combat. Since he is very efficient at getting laid, he is also an easy
> target to have his women plucked from him.
>
If he's a PUA, his joy is in the conquest and he doesn't want to keep her
anyway. What I mean by adapting is not using canned material, not being
afraid to fail, and using what works, whatever that may be. Let's say I had
been using Gunwitch's method, and it stopped working for me, so I use the
Mystery Method and it works fine. Then I have adopted the method that works
for me now. Canned routines are for rookies, but then once you have gotten
past the rookie stage, you learn to use what works for you now.
> In the NFL, whenever a team wins the Superbowl, the next champion usually
> builds a team specifically designed to defeat the previous champion.
>
The military built the Army in the 30s to fight WWI, so when WWII came
along, the tactics of the Germans had evolved and they ran all over Europe.
Now what doe that and the NFL, have to do with seduction??
>
>>> For example, a guy with a 50 percent chance of taking a woman home from
>>> a bar should definitely pay a $20 cover charge to get in. If that's
>>> only a 5 percent chance, however, that is no longer the case.
>>>
>> Hey if you can't afford the cover, you have no business in the place to
>> begin with.
>
> Not all men need to buy their women.
>
No, but if you want access to the club, you have to pay the cover or you
won't get in. Although at one time, several of the local clubs gave me VIP
cards to get in without paying the cover. Since I was such a good customer,
and kept things moving on the dance floor. I love to dance.
> Oh wait, he does.
>
Nahhh, I'm interested more in the chase than the kill. Sex is the closer,
but the Game is getting them there.
>>Better to sell a few more ebooks and come back when you are more well
>>heeled.
>
> Translation: he thinks "money" is game, which to him it is.
>
Spoken like a true cheapskate.
>
>> Poker has nothing to do with seduction. Poker strategy is simply not
>> applicable except maybe to learn when to fold your hand and go to another
>> game somewhere else.
>
> Abstract thought seems above this man's capabilities, or maybe he just
> didn't like what was said and wanted to pretend to ignore it rather than
> answer it.
>
You MUST be right Genius.
>
>
>
>> Not sure, the books are probably very old now, maybe I'll buy a couple of
>> vintage playboys and find out. But I really don't like the idea of doing
>> your research for you. Unlike you, I have other things in my life
>> besides USENET.
>
> Wow, no citations which predate mine.
>
> Hell, I found Tracy Cabot's NLP seduction work, which predates Ross's by
> an entire year or four (I forgot which).
>
You have a stake in it, I don't give a damn it's not my field. I'm a PUA,
not trying to sell anything to anyone except myself to my target for the
night.
>
>>>> I also have a trust, so what? In a dark bar, the blonde I picked up
>>>> the other night didn't have a clue. All she knew was that I was the
>>>> Alpha in the place at the time, and she loves to follow the big dog.
>>>
>>> For money, women will pretend a guy is alpha, that's for sure. Real
>>> alphas don't have to hide like this anonymous cockroach.
>>>
>> Who is hiding? Are you claiming that your real name is Ray Gordon?
>
> Note his deflection.
>
That was not a deflection, answer the question.
>
>
>>> Getting a golddigging slut with money? Maybe to a guy with money, it
>>> is.
>>>
>> But you think they are all golddigging sluts, you say it all the time.
>
> With one exception, the women I lay aren't golddiggers, I can be 100
> percent certain of that. The ones who are I can trade knowledge with as
> if it were money.
>
I would have to agree, if you are getting laid they are not golddiggers,
because you have no gold to dig.
>> Reminds me of a dysfunctional parent that is always bitching about their
>> child and then is suprised when they grow up and no longer even try to
>> please the parent because they have given up. When you can't please
>> someone, then why bother. It's the same with you, all you do is gripe
>> about every woman, calling them cunts and whores and such. And then you
>> are surprised when you are not acknowledged as a "seduction guru"?
>
> I am acknowledged, as evidenced by the rival gurus being scared to debate
> me on an open forum and paying people to harass me 24/7 online, when they
> aren't busy stealing my work.
>
What you interpret as fear, I interpret as an unwillingness to waste their
time debating someone that is such a tiny part of the business. That would
be like me complaing that George W Bush won't debate me because I have
called him out here. Also, since you are suing them all, they have likely
been advised not to "debate" you until after the litigation is over.
>
>
>>Who in their right mind would think you could seduce a woman, all you do
>>is rain insults on them.
>
> I don't fear women as he does, and have no difficulty speaking the truth
> about them.
>
Most PUAs will tell you that being brutally honest is not always the best
plan.
>
> If not a slut, what is she for fucking a guy she just met?
>
That's what PUAs do, we pick up girls we don't know and talk them into bed.
Don't you know what a PUA is ? That's what this is about, seducing women.
What did you think we were doing, going to Sunday School?
>
>>>
>> LOL, keep right on. You are doing a masterful job of selling seduction
>> material.
>
> More references to money.
>
Actually I was just laughing at your lack of sales as evidenced by your
income.
>>>
>> Any time you want to meet me in the ring, the offer is still open.
>
> No way of knowing who the "me" is. He could send anyone.
>
Awwww, you are afraid of little ole me?
>
>
>
> So he makes enough to purchase women. Average guys have to do it with a
> lot less.
>
> Money is not "game."
>
Gordon, you miss the entire point. The dating game is just that, a game.
Anyone can buy women, they are called prostitutes or escorts and you can
even buy some of the girls from the strip clubs if that's what you are into.
I'm a PUA, paying for a girl defeats the purpose.
>
>
> "Teddybear" is the anonymous cockroach. I am not anonymous.
>
So your REAL name is Ray Gordon, is that the claim now?
>
>>>
>> Anytime you want to get in that ring, you just let me know.
>
> First let's see who the "me" is so he can't use a ringer.
>
Nice try, but I am not going to give you personal information. Meet me for
coffee at Starbucks and I'll give it to you as I have said before.
>
>
> Many PUAs call them worse names than anything I ever have. They develop
> contempt for women when they realize how easily women are fooled.
>
> A pussy-whipped AFC/ATM wouldn't know this, of course.
>
How would you know what PUAs think? Did you meet one somewhere?
>
>>>
>> If you can't afford the cover charge, you better go sell some more
>> ebooks.
>
> Translation: he thinks money is game.
>
> That's a JOHN mentality.
>
No stupid, I am just aware as you obviously are not, that in order to get
past the door you have to pay the cover charge. If you don't know that you
are more stupid than I thought and have NEVER been out of mommy's basement.
>
>> I don't have anything to prove, YOU are the one that is trying to sell
>> seduction material. I am not in that business. Maybe I should be.
>
> He is trying to recommend other material, or endorse commercial material
> in general.
>
> Readers should not forget that.
>
I have not endorsed any commercial material at all, I'm frankly amazed at
the number of men that are afraid to walk up to a woman and say hi. But I
do recognize that there are people like that, and they need to develop the
skills and overcome the fear. If they require help for that and they have
the recources for that, more power to them.
>
>>> Also that he uses money to get laid even if he has to deny it.
>>>
>> NOPE, I'll tell you right now, I use every advantage I have to get laid.
>> I'm well over 50, so getting the average 20something is not as easy as it
>> once was. But a mature man can go a lot further in a club than a cheap,
>> abrasive asshole. That's for sure.....
>
> Real men don't need club sluts who are on display for every loser like
> "Teddybear."
>
Real men go out at night and engage. Mostly what you do is sit home and
whine on USENET. Have a nice day, class dismissed!
