>>> You don't make as much money as a part timer at minimum wage. That's
>>> not a job, it's a hobby.
>>
>> The IRS defines a hobby as something that does not turn a profit three
>> out of every five years. I do not meet that definition. Businesses
>> often don't make money at first when they are being built. When people
>> break rules and harm the business, that is especially true.
>>
> I'm not a tax lawyer, nor am I a hobbiest, I have my opinion, they have
> theirs. Most "businesses" do show some kind of living wage after 7 years.
> Which is not the case with yours.
That is a lie.
>You whine all the time about how "people break rules and harm the
>business", however in six years of lawsuits and bluster, you have not shown
>one scintilla of real evidence to support your contentions.
Time will tell how that plays out.
>> Hell, Mystery didn't even begin making any real money until a few years
>> after he did his first workshop, which barely covered his expenses.
>> Doesn't mean it was a "hobby" to him.
>>
> Mystery started at about the same time you did, totally broke. Now he's a
> success and has been for several years. Nobody pays any attention to you
> because you are not a threat to them. Not economically, and not legally.
> Can't be much of a guru living with mommy.
When one gets laid regularly without having to give women free room and
board, it's more "game" than if they have a six-fiure income, that's for
sure. In Europe, some of the best-known seducers are hotel workers and
others.
A man has no need to bring a woman to his home. Such invasions of one's
privacy are foolish, especially when dealing with women one has just picked
up (as he bragged about).
>>> As I said, the last time I looked that was the figure. I'll give you
>>> the benefit of the doubt and say 250,000 copies and that every single
>>> one of them was read cover to cover, which we all know is not true. It
>>> does not change anything, the book has been out for what, six months?
>>> Yesterdays news.
>>
>> Not even close, as people always want good information on how to get
>> laid.
>>
> EXACTLY, there will always be a market for good information. Now all you
> have to do is produce some, learn how to market and you are good to go.
Armchair marketing 101 noted.
My work is already very good, it's just worth the cost of a book, which is
all any of this stuff is worth. Theories I develop wind up being sold by
rival gurus within a year or two of my releasing them.
Guys are having their love lives ruined by piss-poor advice from "brand
name" gurus who are feuled by propaganda websites. Besides, the mainstream
media pays more to its "gurus" anyway.
On THIS group, people look for specific advice, and I give it, as do others.
Money really doesn't mean much except to measure how much a guy is using it
to get laid.
>> There's also that little MAJOR MOTION PICTURE being made.
>>
> Good for them, but then it's not GAME OVER until it's out is it? And even
> then, it won't be over, because dating is how men and women get together,
> and teaching men how to be more successful will always be necessary.
If that were true, there would *never* have been an edge to gain by learning
this stuff, since it was "always happening anyway.
This stuff is getting played out and the dating market is digesting it.
>>>What we are talking about is teaching men how to walk up to a woman,
>>>introduce himself, and take her home with him.
>>
>> If she's a slut and he doesn't care about STDs, maybe.
>>
> You were unlucky, it reminds me of the joke about the guy that got herpes
> on his nose. He was "looking for love in all the wrong places". LOL
Lots of people have herpes. Many "PUAs" included.
>>>Overcoming the fear of rejection is the holy grail here. The rest is
>>>just fluff.
>>
>> There are many rAFCs who have no fear of rejection who still don't get
>> what they want.
>>
> There are a lot of pilots that don't get to fly 767s too. Shit
> happens....but if you work at it, you will succeed. If you sit at home
> and growl on the USENET all the time, you will only be successful with
> your "Hellen" tapes.
They made enough money for both of us. Several thousand dollars, in fact,
for about six hours in a studio.
>> Me and 70 million Americans. At least it's not HIV.
>>
> Yeah, but they think they will soon be able to cure HIV, herpes is the
> Gift that Keeps On Giving....
Herpes is very common among the ONS set.
>> Without marriage, you have sexual free agency, and a totally different
>> landscape, one where 9s and 10s never leave the market, and make that
>> market much more difficult to succeed in for the average guy, since he is
>> now thought to be what a woman "settles" for rather than what he would be
>> with the 9s and 10s not as his competition. Same for the females.
>>
> If you have more 9s and 10s, that would make them more plentiful, thus
> easier to succeed in. Your statement makes no sense. Hell I wish all the
> 10s would stay single...LOL
They are easier to get once, maybe twice (like the guy in Vegas), but
literally impossible to keep.
One guy can't deliver what an open market of dozens or hundreds of men can.
Marriage is for 7s.
>> Of course it can, and it has. Even if the "ratio" is still the same, if
>> the average single person is hotter, then it becomes more difficult for
>> those less hot to compete.
>>
> The self help material that's out there has as it's purpose, making guys
> more attractive to the opposite sex.
More deceptive. It's an illusion of being attractive. When women learn
what the men are studying, they find the men less attractive. Otherwise,
the women would be pushing men to learn this, and they aren't.
Perhaps he can argue this with Dr. Phil.
>So it follows that it will be easier for the guy that learns the material,
>and more difficult for the guy that doesn't read it or can't master it.
Not necessarily, since the material becomes worthless as it is overused.
>You are talking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.
Hardly.
>> Same occurs with every guy getting "game." A woman doesn't have to keep
>> searching for that "rare" PUA because he's no longer rare.
>>
> But according to you there are more attractive girls on the market now, so
> the balance is restored.
More attractive GUYS as well. THOSE guys (the 9-10s) benefit.
A harsher version of Darwin's alpha male theory.
>>>> Whereas forty years ago some nice guy might have been able to marry a
>>>> 10, that same nice guy won't be able to take her home from a bar on
>>>> Friday night, because the 10 is out there trying to get some
>>>> investment-banker type to "commit" to her, because HE is at the bar as
>>>> well, since he didn't marry off.
>>>>
>>> He would have married a different 10, and since he didn't, she's on the
>>> market. Your statement makes no sense at all.
>>
>> He's not marrying ANYONE, and neither is the 10.
>>
> OK, follow me now. He's not getting married, so the girl he WOULD have
> married is not getting married either. So BOTH of them are now available.
> This does not decrease the number of hotties that are available.
It increases them, and they suck all the attention away from the 7-8s who
would have been the most desirable in an era where the 9-10s married off.
A 10 is going to have dozens of 7-8s after him or her, at the expense of the
other 7-8s.
>> Marriage is more and more only for the desperate. We now live in a
>> hookup culture.
>>
> And that's what I like doing, hooking up. Perfect!!
Fine if one wants an STD but no LTR.
>>>> While it may be profitable for the gurus to teach 100 men how to win at
>>>> musical chairs, 99 of them are going to lose. Because the competition
>>>> is tougher, the promise of winning will sell for a much higher price,
>>>> with much less odds of occurring.
>>>>
>>> Life's a bitch, learn to be the one that suceeds.
>>
>> "Life's a bitch" isn't what a guy who spends thousands of dollars is
>> paying to learn.
>>
> Nope, he's trading money for the time he would spend learning this on his
> own. Thus taking a shortcut to success. That's what money is for ya
> know.
When only 1 percent of the men are succeeding, 99 percent are not.
You can't teach every man to be that 1 percent. The promises the gurus make
will be more and more difficult to keep.
>> That presumes the coach is teaching something that works for the typical
>> student, which is not the case.
>>
> Oh? You have proof that this is not working for the typical student? The
> marketplace says otherwise.
The marketplace has to do with sales, not followup.
A lot of the criticism of these products is suppressed by several means as
well. Plus the students are mostly wealthy and already have a sure thing
due to that.
This does not help the average guy one iota.
>If the material was no good, then the students would be talking and
>eventually the product would fail. Like yours did.
My products never failed. They are still on the market and make money.
Many gurus who make a lot of money can buy positive media, but that has
nothing to do with the quality of their information.
>In the case of your ebooks, they never had a real chance because you failed
>to properly market them, and the only place you did was USENET, where you
>killed your own product with your mouth. Buy some Ads in USA today, or the
>New York Times. Get your product out where people can see it. Style
>didn't sell his book "The Game" on USENET, so look and see what successful
>people are doing and go with the flow.
Armchair marketing 101 noted.
The anonoymous coward's rabid-dog obsession with disparaging me is also
noted, and that does cause damage, but it's also a reason I'm litigating.
>>>I had a PUA for a roomie, so I learned for free. Everyone is not that
>>>lucky. Life with it....
>>
>> I had wings who taught me for free as well.
>>
> I don't use wings much anymore, I like the freedom of leaving when I need
> to, or being able to make a move. And it doesn't hurt that a lot of the
> places I run in know me very well. The staff knows me, and lots of times
> when I'm familiar with the staff, girls will ask them about me. I must be
> getting good reviews, because I'm usually successful. But I'm glad you
> had some buds that taught you the ropes. Where are they now, and why are
> you not sarging with them?
He's got money (or so he claims). ATMs are very popular I'm sure.
My old wings moved on with their lives.
>>> There is always room at the top, you just have to crowd someone else
>>> out. Be a man, take charge of your life and let the other guys watch
>>> out. Who has the biggest balls?
>>
>> If the game is too rigged, it does *not* pay to play it that way.
>>
> Then you change tactics, overcome, adapt. You have to learn how to think
> on your feet. And of course, if the game is not right in one place, get
> in the car and go someplace else.
Adapting means discarding the methods that are currently being sold to the
masses.
My point exactly.
The new methods that work will be those that even the PUA can't detect or
combat. Since he is very efficient at getting laid, he is also an easy
target to have his women plucked from him.
In the NFL, whenever a team wins the Superbowl, the next champion usually
builds a team specifically designed to defeat the previous champion.
>> For example, a guy with a 50 percent chance of taking a woman home from a
>> bar should definitely pay a $20 cover charge to get in. If that's only a
>> 5 percent chance, however, that is no longer the case.
>>
> Hey if you can't afford the cover, you have no business in the place to
> begin with.
Not all men need to buy their women.
Oh wait, he does.
>Better to sell a few more ebooks and come back when you are more well
>heeled.
Translation: he thinks "money" is game, which to him it is.
>>>> If you double the rake in a poker game, there would still be winning
>>>> players, but far fewer. Books on poker strategy would become basic
>>>> knowledge rather than an advantage (and not worth what one charges for
>>>> an edge), and so forth.
>>>>
>>> You play poker, I'll just poke her.
>>
>> As long as someone isn't looking for answers to this objection (and won't
>> spend money until he gets them), he can laugh at a deflection like this.
>>
> Poker has nothing to do with seduction. Poker strategy is simply not
> applicable except maybe to learn when to fold your hand and go to another
> game somewhere else.
Abstract thought seems above this man's capabilities, or maybe he just
didn't like what was said and wanted to pretend to ignore it rather than
answer it.
>>>> Most men are not alpha, plain and simple, and most never will be. As
>>>> more and more knowledge hits the masses, it becomes more and more
>>>> difficult to stand out as an "alpha" except financially (which is an
>>>> objective measure), or physically (which is a product of nature).
>>>>
>>> Anyone can improve, even you.
>>
>> I'm far ahead of where you'll ever be as a man, anonymous, whining
>> cockroach.
>>
> Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence.
As does the anonymous cockroach's entire posting history.
>
>>>>> Thank you, I do try hard to keep several hotties on the string.
>>>>
>>>> Prove it.
>>>>
>>> Already did, where's your photo?
>>
>> He didn't prove shit.
>>
> Nice deflection, now about that photo.....
Exactly. He didn't prove shit.
>>>>>They also are social proof so I can get more.
>>>>
>>>> Pivots, what I wrote about years ago....
>>>>
>>> And what others wrote about it in the 60s, it's not new, not even close
>>> to being new.
>>
>> Where are their copyrights?
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
> Not sure, the books are probably very old now, maybe I'll buy a couple of
> vintage playboys and find out. But I really don't like the idea of doing
> your research for you. Unlike you, I have other things in my life besides
> USENET.
Wow, no citations which predate mine.
Hell, I found Tracy Cabot's NLP seduction work, which predates Ross's by an
entire year or four (I forgot which).
>>> I also have a trust, so what? In a dark bar, the blonde I picked up the
>>> other night didn't have a clue. All she knew was that I was the Alpha
>>> in the place at the time, and she loves to follow the big dog.
>>
>> For money, women will pretend a guy is alpha, that's for sure. Real
>> alphas don't have to hide like this anonymous cockroach.
>>
> Who is hiding? Are you claiming that your real name is Ray Gordon?
Note his deflection.
>> Getting a golddigging slut with money? Maybe to a guy with money, it is.
>>
> But you think they are all golddigging sluts, you say it all the time.
With one exception, the women I lay aren't golddiggers, I can be 100 percent
certain of that. The ones who are I can trade knowledge with as if it were
money.
> Reminds me of a dysfunctional parent that is always bitching about their
> child and then is suprised when they grow up and no longer even try to
> please the parent because they have given up. When you can't please
> someone, then why bother. It's the same with you, all you do is gripe
> about every woman, calling them cunts and whores and such. And then you
> are surprised when you are not acknowledged as a "seduction guru"?
I am acknowledged, as evidenced by the rival gurus being scared to debate me
on an open forum and paying people to harass me 24/7 online, when they
aren't busy stealing my work.
>Who in their right mind would think you could seduce a woman, all you do is
>rain insults on them.
I don't fear women as he does, and have no difficulty speaking the truth
about them.
That he has this fear says he doesn't get laid much.
>> When was the HIV/STD test done?
>>
>> Buying women is nothing new.
>>
> Neigher is your hatred of women or your constand game over crap.
He can't handle the truth about women. He's a pussy-whipped ATM.
>>>> Since the average income in this country is closer to $30k, however,
>>>> this does little to help the average man.
>>>>
>>> I laid her before she had a clue, and actually she still doesn't have a
>>> clue.
>>
>> Women have paydar.
>>
> I laid her before she knew my last name. Since she didn't have time to
> run my tag, I don't think that was it Gordon
Women have paydar.
If not a slut, what is she for fucking a guy she just met?
>>>We were not talking about money, we were talking about sex, and I used
>>>the dumbest line I know and it flew like an eagle. I said, "I bet you
>>>have trouble with men, because you are more intelligent than most of
>>>them, and they feel intimidated and shy away from you". She melted
>>>instantly.
>>
>> Dumb sluts will, as will golddigging sluts who don't want you thinking
>> they are after your cash.
>>
> LOL, keep right on. You are doing a masterful job of selling seduction
> material.
More references to money.
It's his idea of "game."
>>> That's a pretty dumb thing to say, not unexpected, but still dumb. Of
>>> course I clicked send, how else would you have seen it? Dumbass...
>>
>> Oh how tough he talks when anonymous....
>>
> Any time you want to meet me in the ring, the offer is still open.
No way of knowing who the "me" is. He could send anyone.
>>>> The only "loser mentality" is that held by men who continually try to
>>>> play a game that is rigged against them unless they are tall and rich
>>>> (this guy claims to be rich).
>>>>
>>> I'm a little over six feet, not rich by any means, but comfortable.
>>
>> Rich enough to purchase some golddigging sluts. Of course, in another
>> post, when he wanted to brag about how much money he had, he said he
>> makes $8,000 in a few weeks (wihch is close to a quarter-million a year).
>>
> A few months ago, I made $57,000 in two weeks, and $34,000 in the next
> check two weeks later. Fact is I don't make the same amount every week,
> but I did have a pretty good month. No I'm not in sales, but the art of
> seduction is selling yourself. That's what you have to learn, not to fear
> rejection, and how to sell yourself.
So he makes enough to purchase women. Average guys have to do it with a lot
less.
Money is not "game."
>> Since he's anonymous, he figures he can lie like that and not get caught.
>>
> You are also anonymous, and you get caught lying all the time. Unless you
> can get the REAL Ray Gordon, Author to sell you his name.
"Teddybear" is the anonymous cockroach. I am not anonymous.
>>>> A man who is not rich, not tall, and not exceptionally good-looking is
>>>> an absolute fool if he thinks ASF methods will get him what he wants.
>>>> Even Mystery talks about how he uses his money and fame to get women.
>>>>
>>> Real PUAs use what they got. What you got, other than a mouth?
>>
>> He's the pussy running his mouth while hiding (not alpha).
>>
> Anytime you want to get in that ring, you just let me know.
First let's see who the "me" is so he can't use a ringer.
>> Using money to get laid isn't game or alpha, it's being a JOHN.
>>
> Yeah, it's real ALPHA to call all women whores and cunts. That will help
> you sell a lot of books too, just look at your massive income.
Many PUAs call them worse names than anything I ever have. They develop
contempt for women when they realize how easily women are fooled.
A pussy-whipped AFC/ATM wouldn't know this, of course.
>> Guys who want to pay for sex could likely learn a lot from this man.
>>
> Guys that want a drink in the face can learn a lot from Gordon.
No woman has ever thrown a drink in my face. To say one has is a lie. Oh
wait, he's not saying that. Smart for him.
>>>> Clubs even now have "bottle service" to separate rich and poor, and to
>>>> drop the hotties into the laps of the rich. The price? $500 a night.
>>>>
>>> Not me, and you won't see me in strip clubs or casinos either. I would
>>> rather go to a show, or go dancing, or sarging.
>>
>> All of which cost money for men, more than women (especially cover
>> charges).
>>
> If you can't afford the cover charge, you better go sell some more ebooks.
Translation: he thinks money is game.
That's a JOHN mentality.
>>>>> Keep fighting those windmills Sir Don, everyone else sees you are the
>>>>> Court Jester. Amusing but not a role model...LOL
>>>>
>>>> Said the man who can't prove he's bedded even a single hottie.
>>>>
>>> Coming from you, I'll take that as a complement. I'm not in court, have
>>> nothing to prove
>>
>> Then the readers should consider nothing he has said to be proven.
>>
> I don't have anything to prove, YOU are the one that is trying to sell
> seduction material. I am not in that business. Maybe I should be.
He is trying to recommend other material, or endorse commercial material in
general.
Readers should not forget that.
>> Also that he uses money to get laid even if he has to deny it.
>>
> NOPE, I'll tell you right now, I use every advantage I have to get laid.
> I'm well over 50, so getting the average 20something is not as easy as it
> once was. But a mature man can go a lot further in a club than a cheap,
> abrasive asshole. That's for sure.....
Real men don't need club sluts who are on display for every loser like
"Teddybear."
--
Money is not "game."
Looks are not "game."
Social status or value is not "game."
Those are the things that game makes unnecessary.
A seduction guru who teaches you that looks, money or status is game is not
teaching you "game," but how to be an AFC. He uses his students' money to
get women and laughs that "AFCs pay my rent."
