"Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot""
cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:NZOdneZpb43KVtrYnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@pghconnect.com...>>>> At last count they have sold about 170,000 copies of "The Game". The
>>>> amount of actual pickup instruction in that book is not great, it's
>>>> mostly a story about some dysfunctional people who lived together in
>>>> Hollywood, and their exploits. Most people have real jobs, unlike you,
>>>> and have to spend a large part of their time working.
>>>
>>> Last time I checked I work a real job. That I don't punch a time clock
>>> is a plus, not a minus.
>>>
>> You don't make as much money as a part timer at minimum wage. That's not
>> a job, it's a hobby.
>
> The IRS defines a hobby as something that does not turn a profit three out
> of every five years. I do not meet that definition. Businesses often
> don't make money at first when they are being built. When people break
> rules and harm the business, that is especially true.
>
I'm not a tax lawyer, nor am I a hobbiest, I have my opinion, they have
theirs. Most "businesses" do show some kind of living wage after 7 years.
Which is not the case with yours. You whine all the time about how "people
break rules and harm the business", however in six years of lawsuits and
bluster, you have not shown one scintilla of real evidence to support your
contentions.
> Hell, Mystery didn't even begin making any real money until a few years
> after he did his first workshop, which barely covered his expenses.
> Doesn't mean it was a "hobby" to him.
>
Mystery started at about the same time you did, totally broke. Now he's a
success and has been for several years. Nobody pays any attention to you
because you are not a threat to them. Not economically, and not legally.
Can't be much of a guru living with mommy.
>
>>> As for "The Game," the sales are more than 170,000, plus the book is
>>> given or loaned to people, so there is a multiplier there. Then there
>>> are the websites and other media exposure. The book is also still
>>> selling steadily, and as for pickup instruction, Mystery is releasing
>>> his VAH as a paperback soon.
>>>
>> As I said, the last time I looked that was the figure. I'll give you the
>> benefit of the doubt and say 250,000 copies and that every single one of
>> them was read cover to cover, which we all know is not true. It does not
>> change anything, the book has been out for what, six months? Yesterdays
>> news.
>
> Not even close, as people always want good information on how to get laid.
>
EXACTLY, there will always be a market for good information. Now all you
have to do is produce some, learn how to market and you are good to go.
> There's also that little MAJOR MOTION PICTURE being made.
>
Good for them, but then it's not GAME OVER until it's out is it? And even
then, it won't be over, because dating is how men and women get together,
and teaching men how to be more successful will always be necessary.
>>Besides, it's great entertainment if you want to read about dysfunctional
>>people in Hollyweird. The amout of actual pickup information is not
>>great, and really it doesn't need to be. What we are talking about is
>>teaching men how to walk up to a woman, introduce himself, and take her
>>home with him.
>
> If she's a slut and he doesn't care about STDs, maybe.
>
You were unlucky, it reminds me of the joke about the guy that got herpes on
his nose. He was "looking for love in all the wrong places". LOL
>
>>Even a cretin like you can do that once in awhile if you would go out and
>>grow some balls.
>
> How amusing that a coward who can't even identify himself in his postings
> would call someone else a name like that.
>
OK, sorry asshole.
>>Overcoming the fear of rejection is the holy grail here. The rest is just
>>fluff.
>
> There are many rAFCs who have no fear of rejection who still don't get
> what they want.
>
There are a lot of pilots that don't get to fly 767s too. Shit
happens....but if you work at it, you will succeed. If you sit at home and
growl on the USENET all the time, you will only be successful with your
"Hellen" tapes.
>
>>>> The STD risk is acually lower now as most people are using condoms.
>>>
>>> Condoms don't prevent herpes.
>>>
>> You are exactly right. That's one we can't dodge and I thank God every
>> day that I have not been as unlucky as you were.
>
> Me and 70 million Americans. At least it's not HIV.
>
Yeah, but they think they will soon be able to cure HIV, herpes is the Gift
that Keeps On Giving....
>
>>>>This was not true in the 80s and before. People still get married, but
>>>>nowdays they take more time and try and do it right the first time.
>>>
>>> Marriage is down 40 percent from a generation ago.
>>>
>> True, people have seen that marriage is not always the best answer.
>> However there are many reasons, some of them politically incorrect, for
>> the lower marriage figures. Our generation was not a good role model,
>> and for that I'm very sad.
>
> Without marriage, you have sexual free agency, and a totally different
> landscape, one where 9s and 10s never leave the market, and make that
> market much more difficult to succeed in for the average guy, since he is
> now thought to be what a woman "settles" for rather than what he would be
> with the 9s and 10s not as his competition. Same for the females.
>
If you have more 9s and 10s, that would make them more plentiful, thus
easier to succeed in. Your statement makes no sense. Hell I wish all the
10s would stay single...LOL
>
>>>>Over half of marriages fail, and the reasons are the same as they have
>>>>always been, only now a divorce is MUCH easier to get, so there are a
>>>>lot more people in the dating pool with former spouses in their
>>>>background. Used goods? I'm glad you look at it that way, more for me
>>>>then.
>>>
>>> It's not about "used goods," but rather that sexual free agency has
>>> totally altered the dating market. There are far more hotties of both
>>> genders who are not married going out every weekend. This is
>>> competition that simply didn't exist forty or fifty years ago, because
>>> these folks used to marry off.
>>>
>> Dude, when I walk into a bar, the only thing on my mind is the ratio of
>> women to men. That's going to remain constant, because if the ratio is
>> too bad, the extra guys will sooner or later leave and if they can't
>> keep it within certain paramaters, the bar/club will close. Law of the
>> dating jungle, and it will remain so. I don't really give a crap how
>> many women are sitting at home, they are not targets because they are not
>> available. The ratio will stay in balance, it cannot do otherwise.
>
> Of course it can, and it has. Even if the "ratio" is still the same, if
> the average single person is hotter, then it becomes more difficult for
> those less hot to compete.
>
The self help material that's out there has as it's purpose, making guys
more attractive to the opposite sex. So it follows that it will be easier
for the guy that learns the material, and more difficult for the guy that
doesn't read it or can't master it. You are talking out of both sides of
your mouth at the same time.
> Same occurs with every guy getting "game." A woman doesn't have to keep
> searching for that "rare" PUA because he's no longer rare.
>
But according to you there are more attractive girls on the market now, so
the balance is restored.
>
>>> Whereas forty years ago some nice guy might have been able to marry a
>>> 10, that same nice guy won't be able to take her home from a bar on
>>> Friday night, because the 10 is out there trying to get some
>>> investment-banker type to "commit" to her, because HE is at the bar as
>>> well, since he didn't marry off.
>>>
>> He would have married a different 10, and since he didn't, she's on the
>> market. Your statement makes no sense at all.
>
> He's not marrying ANYONE, and neither is the 10.
>
OK, follow me now. He's not getting married, so the girl he WOULD have
married is not getting married either. So BOTH of them are now available.
This does not decrease the number of hotties that are available.
> Marriage is more and more only for the desperate. We now live in a hookup
> culture.
>
And that's what I like doing, hooking up. Perfect!!
>
>>> While it may be profitable for the gurus to teach 100 men how to win at
>>> musical chairs, 99 of them are going to lose. Because the competition
>>> is tougher, the promise of winning will sell for a much higher price,
>>> with much less odds of occurring.
>>>
>> Life's a bitch, learn to be the one that suceeds.
>
> "Life's a bitch" isn't what a guy who spends thousands of dollars is
> paying to learn.
>
Nope, he's trading money for the time he would spend learning this on his
own. Thus taking a shortcut to success. That's what money is for ya know.
>>What you don't seem to understand in your rants is that a product that is
>>not worth the money to you, may well be worth it to someone who has more
>>money and less time. So he uses some of his money to take the shortcut of
>>a personal coach.
>
> That presumes the coach is teaching something that works for the typical
> student, which is not the case.
>
Oh? You have proof that this is not working for the typical student? The
marketplace says otherwise. If the material was no good, then the students
would be talking and eventually the product would fail. Like yours did. In
the case of your ebooks, they never had a real chance because you failed to
properly market them, and the only place you did was USENET, where you
killed your own product with your mouth. Buy some Ads in USA today, or the
New York Times. Get your product out where people can see it. Style didn't
sell his book "The Game" on USENET, so look and see what successful people
are doing and go with the flow.
>
>>I had a PUA for a roomie, so I learned for free. Everyone is not that
>>lucky. Life with it....
>
> I had wings who taught me for free as well.
>
I don't use wings much anymore, I like the freedom of leaving when I need
to, or being able to make a move. And it doesn't hurt that a lot of the
places I run in know me very well. The staff knows me, and lots of times
when I'm familiar with the staff, girls will ask them about me. I must be
getting good reviews, because I'm usually successful. But I'm glad you had
some buds that taught you the ropes. Where are they now, and why are you
not sarging with them?
>
>>> Like in the gold rush, those who "mine the miners" are the ones who make
>>> out.
>>>
>> So what's your problem? Are you so wedded to poverty that you can't go
>> with the flow. They are making money and getting laid, while you stay
>> home and whine on USENET.
>
> He said as he clicked "send."
>
Of course I clicked send dumkopf, otherwise you would not be reading this.
>
>>>>> Unless a man is blessed by being in the top 5-10 percent of men (by
>>>>> definition 90-95 percent of men are not), he'll get table scraps from
>>>>> the hottie sluts (like the guy who fucked one once, got hooked, and
>>>>> got dumped), but he won't reliably get them the way the super-alphas
>>>>> do.
>>>>>
>>>> The entire POINT of most of these books (except yours) is to teach me
>>>> how to BE one of the Alphs instead of one of the followers.
>>>
>>> That type of "alpha" becomes beta when that occurs, however, as there is
>>> simply not that much room at the top. PUA becomes, if not the new AFC,
>>> the new rAFC.
>>>
>> There is always room at the top, you just have to crowd someone else out.
>> Be a man, take charge of your life and let the other guys watch out. Who
>> has the biggest balls?
>
> If the game is too rigged, it does *not* pay to play it that way.
>
Then you change tactics, overcome, adapt. You have to learn how to think on
your feet. And of course, if the game is not right in one place, get in the
car and go someplace else.
> For example, a guy with a 50 percent chance of taking a woman home from a
> bar should definitely pay a $20 cover charge to get in. If that's only a
> 5 percent chance, however, that is no longer the case.
>
Hey if you can't afford the cover, you have no business in the place to
begin with. Better to sell a few more ebooks and come back when you are
more well heeled.
>
>>> If you double the rake in a poker game, there would still be winning
>>> players, but far fewer. Books on poker strategy would become basic
>>> knowledge rather than an advantage (and not worth what one charges for
>>> an edge), and so forth.
>>>
>> You play poker, I'll just poke her.
>
> As long as someone isn't looking for answers to this objection (and won't
> spend money until he gets them), he can laugh at a deflection like this.
>
Poker has nothing to do with seduction. Poker strategy is simply not
applicable except maybe to learn when to fold your hand and go to another
game somewhere else.
>
>>> Most men are not alpha, plain and simple, and most never will be. As
>>> more and more knowledge hits the masses, it becomes more and more
>>> difficult to stand out as an "alpha" except financially (which is an
>>> objective measure), or physically (which is a product of nature).
>>>
>> Anyone can improve, even you.
>
> I'm far ahead of where you'll ever be as a man, anonymous, whining
> cockroach.
>
Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence.
>
>>>>> This is a byproduct of sexual free agency, since attractive people no
>>>>> longer leave the dating market, and as a result, the rest of the crowd
>>>>> has to compete against them for far longer than before. That
>>>>> investment banker/ex-jock/scholar would have married 50 years ago;
>>>>> today he'll keep six hotties on a string and never commit.
>>>>>
>>>> Thank you, I do try hard to keep several hotties on the string.
>>>
>>> Prove it.
>>>
>> Already did, where's your photo?
>
> He didn't prove shit.
>
Nice deflection, now about that photo.....
>
>>>>They also are social proof so I can get more.
>>>
>>> Pivots, what I wrote about years ago....
>>>
>> And what others wrote about it in the 60s, it's not new, not even close
>> to being new.
>
> Where are their copyrights?
>
> Exactly.
>
Not sure, the books are probably very old now, maybe I'll buy a couple of
vintage playboys and find out. But I really don't like the idea of doing
your research for you. Unlike you, I have other things in my life besides
USENET.
>
>>> Of course, there's a difference between actually getting these women and
>>> claiming that one gets them. Oh wait, this guy said he has MONEY
>>> (something about earning over a quarter-million). Yes, money will
>>> attract hot women.
>>>
>> I also have a trust, so what? In a dark bar, the blonde I picked up the
>> other night didn't have a clue. All she knew was that I was the Alpha in
>> the place at the time, and she loves to follow the big dog.
>
> For money, women will pretend a guy is alpha, that's for sure. Real
> alphas don't have to hide like this anonymous cockroach.
>
Who is hiding? Are you claiming that your real name is Ray Gordon?
>
>
>>Learn how to play the game and even you can get laid. The deal was closed
>>in the first 15 minutes, I was not bashful about what I wanted, didn't
>>embarrass her in front of the others in her group, and made a late dinner
>>date with her so she had time to go ditch her friends. I had a wonderful
>>time, and while I was undressing her, she kept saying how she never would
>>have thought about doing this on a first date with someone she just
>>met.....LOL THAT'S what it's about!!
>
> Getting a golddigging slut with money? Maybe to a guy with money, it is.
>
But you think they are all golddigging sluts, you say it all the time.
Reminds me of a dysfunctional parent that is always bitching about their
child and then is suprised when they grow up and no longer even try to
please the parent because they have given up. When you can't please
someone, then why bother. It's the same with you, all you do is gripe about
every woman, calling them cunts and whores and such. And then you are
surprised when you are not acknowledged as a "seduction guru"? Who in their
right mind would think you could seduce a woman, all you do is rain insults
on them.
> When was the HIV/STD test done?
>
> Buying women is nothing new.
>
Neigher is your hatred of women or your constand game over crap.
>
>>> Since the average income in this country is closer to $30k, however,
>>> this does little to help the average man.
>>>
>> I laid her before she had a clue, and actually she still doesn't have a
>> clue.
>
> Women have paydar.
>
I laid her before she knew my last name. Since she didn't have time to run
my tag, I don't think that was it Gordon
>>We were not talking about money, we were talking about sex, and I used the
>>dumbest line I know and it flew like an eagle. I said, "I bet you have
>>trouble with men, because you are more intelligent than most of them, and
>>they feel intimidated and shy away from you". She melted instantly.
>
> Dumb sluts will, as will golddigging sluts who don't want you thinking
> they are after your cash.
>
LOL, keep right on. You are doing a masterful job of selling seduction
material.
>
>>>>>> Education is always a good thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not when it educates the world on how to get an advantage previously
>>>>> reserved for only a few men.
>>>>>
>>>> As I said, 170,000 copies of last years book will not change the world.
>>>> You need to get outside more, it's a BIG WORLD.
>>>
>>> He said as he clicked "send...."
>>>
>> That's a pretty dumb thing to say, not unexpected, but still dumb. Of
>> course I clicked send, how else would you have seen it? Dumbass...
>
> Oh how tough he talks when anonymous....
>
Any time you want to meet me in the ring, the offer is still open.
> The point was that he was posting to USENET while talking about the world.
>
>
>>>>>You have a bad hand, and you don't know when to quit. Like your
>>>>>kooksoots, you can't recognize it when you are wrong and so you bore
>>>>>everyone with your loser mentality. You do understand that this entire
>>>>>screed is a loser mentality don't you? Chicken Little? The sky is
>>>>>only falling for you, everyone else is just fine.
>>>
>>> The only "loser mentality" is that held by men who continually try to
>>> play a game that is rigged against them unless they are tall and rich
>>> (this guy claims to be rich).
>>>
>> I'm a little over six feet, not rich by any means, but comfortable.
>
> Rich enough to purchase some golddigging sluts. Of course, in another
> post, when he wanted to brag about how much money he had, he said he makes
> $8,000 in a few weeks (wihch is close to a quarter-million a year).
>
A few months ago, I made $57,000 in two weeks, and $34,000 in the next check
two weeks later. Fact is I don't make the same amount every week, but I did
have a pretty good month. No I'm not in sales, but the art of seduction is
selling yourself. That's what you have to learn, not to fear rejection, and
how to sell yourself.
> Since he's anonymous, he figures he can lie like that and not get caught.
>
You are also anonymous, and you get caught lying all the time. Unless you
can get the REAL Ray Gordon, Author to sell you his name.
>
>>> A man who is not rich, not tall, and not exceptionally good-looking is
>>> an absolute fool if he thinks ASF methods will get him what he wants.
>>> Even Mystery talks about how he uses his money and fame to get women.
>>>
>> Real PUAs use what they got. What you got, other than a mouth?
>
> He's the pussy running his mouth while hiding (not alpha).
>
Anytime you want to get in that ring, you just let me know.
> Using money to get laid isn't game or alpha, it's being a JOHN.
>
Yeah, it's real ALPHA to call all women whores and cunts. That will help
you sell a lot of books too, just look at your massive income.
> Guys who want to pay for sex could likely learn a lot from this man.
>
Guys that want a drink in the face can learn a lot from Gordon.
>>> Clubs even now have "bottle service" to separate rich and poor, and to
>>> drop the hotties into the laps of the rich. The price? $500 a night.
>>>
>> Not me, and you won't see me in strip clubs or casinos either. I would
>> rather go to a show, or go dancing, or sarging.
>
> All of which cost money for men, more than women (especially cover
> charges).
>
If you can't afford the cover charge, you better go sell some more ebooks.
>
>>>> Keep fighting those windmills Sir Don, everyone else sees you are the
>>>> Court Jester. Amusing but not a role model...LOL
>>>
>>> Said the man who can't prove he's bedded even a single hottie.
>>>
>> Coming from you, I'll take that as a complement. I'm not in court, have
>> nothing to prove
>
> Then the readers should consider nothing he has said to be proven.
>
I don't have anything to prove, YOU are the one that is trying to sell
seduction material. I am not in that business. Maybe I should be.
> Also that he uses money to get laid even if he has to deny it.
>
NOPE, I'll tell you right now, I use every advantage I have to get laid.
I'm well over 50, so getting the average 20something is not as easy as it
once was. But a mature man can go a lot further in a club than a cheap,
abrasive asshole. That's for sure.....
