Page 31 of his book, from the link in his sig line states as follows,

"Formal credit for my discovery of the pivot concept goes to someone I knew
growing up, a man called Boards. who earned his name with his incredible
ability to catch way-out-of-his-league Foxes on the rebound."

So that would seem to me to indicate, in your own words, that Boards and not
you were the "creator of the pivot". And what is an Out of your league fox?
I don't know a PUA worth his salt that considers ANY woman out of his
league. I'm in my late 50s and I regularly date women that are in their
20s. So what? They have bad breath in the morning just like everyone else.
This statement is another indication that Ray has no idea even how a real
PUA thinks.

Later on on the same page he says, "As it turns out, the pivot concept has
floated around seduction circles for decades....."

As I have said all along, the word and the technique go at least back to the
early 70s, and maybe before that. So, steal others work, slap a name on it
and "Poof" you think you are somebody. HAHAHAHAHAH You didn't create
anything, except some hot air to fill the biggest windbag I have ever seen.

Actually it was a co-creation in that Boards and I discussed it, but I'm the
one who developed the theory and gaev it the name. First use in commerce is
also the key.

Tracy Cabot wrote about NLP seduction three years before Ross Jeffries did,
btw.

--
Ray Gordon, The ORIGINAL Lifestyle Seduction Guru

Finding Your A-Game:
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
Includes 29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy (FREE!)
The book Neil Strauss and VH-1 STOLE The Pivot From

Click HERE: for the ORIGINAL pivot chapter:
http://www.cybersheet.com/pivot.pdf

Here's my Myspace Page: And Pickup Blog (FREE advice)
http://www.myspace.com/snodgrasspublishing

Don't rely on overexposed, mass-marketed commercial seduction methods which
no longer work. Learn the methods the gurus USE with the money they make
from what they teach.

"Ray Gordon" cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:4KKdnQJXDqPlIJrVnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@pghconnect.com...

So you don't normally acknowlege his contribution though. And the fact that
is has been in general use in seduction for years prior makes no differance?
If first use in commerce was the key, why did you not trademark the term?

Has Ross ever claimed to have created NLP? I don't think so. He DOES have
many unique and novel uses for it but, he never bragged that he created NLP
because it's not so.

What makes you the "creator of the pivot"? You admit the concept has been
around for years, so what makes you "creator" of anything?

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services

"Ted E Bear" johndoes.org> wrote in
news:1208475149_6460@news.usenet.com:

in article 4KKdnQJXDqPlIJrVnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@pghconnect.com, Ray Gordon,
creator of the "pivot" at ray@cybersheet.com wrote on 4/17/08 5:13 PM:

Show me where Ross claims to have invented NLP seduction.

YOU on the other hand, continue to make claims your own words show are
untrue.

"Ted E Bear" johndoes.org> wrote in message
news:1208468895_6447@news.usenet.com...

he used it, he discussed it with you which is where you then found out
about this from

there was no "co-creation"

On Apr 18, 9:13 am, "Ray Gordon, creator of the \"pivot\""
cybersheet.com> wrote:

oh and why the need to change the subject?

trying to hide something perhaps