Someone wrote:

"... I find that women outside of the USA tend to like the same
qualities in men that American women dislike. In general, american
women will denigrate, oppress, and discriminate against any man that
has any self respect or character. They tend to only tolerate men who
are base or weak. Good guys, in American culture, are losers while
base and weak men are supported by American women.

I traveled to the UK in the late 50's or early 60's as a child.
Feminism was not prominent in the UK at that time. Men of good
character were still in fashion then. When I returned to the UK for a
vacation about 10 years ago, feminism had transformed the society to
such an extent that good men had been rejected and had been replaced
by the feminist ideal of the weak and base male.

Good men should leave the USA. It has become an Orwellian world in
which men that are virtuous and have character are persecuted by the
feminist society that the USA has become. "
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Yes, the major obstacle to the "nice guy" is Feminism.

But there are a few more problems confusing the issue that need to be
addressed.

Women do not communicate according to accuracy or accountability.
Instead they communicate according to FEELING. Anyone who adopts this
type of childish communication antic will invariably start
communicating nonsense.

When women speak about being 'nice,' they can mean a million different
things depending on how they FEEL. But let's just cover the context of
the sentiment: "nice guy."

A Nice Guy(tm) usually refers to a guy with no spine. It refers to a
'YES' man-- a man who will disrespect himself by saying 'YES' to
whatever a woman says, regardless of how little respect she offers
him.

There's a difference between being "nice" and being a "pussy." They
are NOT the same thing.. You can be nice AND have a backbone. It's
just that most guys often equate being 'nice' with being a pushover..

E.g. I can be 'nice' by returning the respect you show me; If you say,
"Hello," I might say, "Hello," back. This would cause me to be
perceived as 'nice.' But guys often confuse this with being a pussy.

E.g. If you say, "Hey fuckface," and I simply say, "Hello," back, I am
DISRESPECTING myself by not addressing the disrespect you have
initially shown me.. In female communication shorthand, I would become
the equivalent of a "nice guy," or what we would call a PASSIVE guy
with NO SELF-RESPECT.

'Nice' people can still have self-respect, but most guys who consider
themselves to be "nice" are ignorant of the fact that they possess
VERY LITTLE SELF-RESPECT. This is blatantly apparent in the lack of
reciprocation they experience.

E.g. A 'nice guy' will bring flowers to a girl even though she does
NOTHING to reciprocate such a gesture. The typical 'nice guy' will
then further DISRESPECT himself by continuing to bring flowers and
showering said girl with attention.. He shows respect to this girl,
yet receives nothing in return-- no blowjobs, no kisses, nada.

A 'nice guy' will DISRESPECT himself by continuing to provide
unreciprocated attention/words of affection/gestures. Ironically,
however, so-called 'nice guys' are DISHONEST at the core because they
EXPECT something just like everyone else. The difference is they are
too 'nice' to claim it. So they don't get it. If they were truly being
'nice' as they claim to be, they wouldn't expect ANYTHING in return.

Helping an old lady across the street would be considered a 'nice'
thing to do. But if you expect a $5 dollar tip, that wouldn't be so
'nice.' A truly 'nice' gesture has no obligation attached to it.

But most 'nice guys' DO EXPECT SOMETHING IN RETURN.. They DO expect to
have their attention reciprocated. They DO expect to eventually get
somewhere by showering a girl with attention and words of affection.

So they are being DISHONEST when they proclaim themselves to be
'nice' .. These men are actually PUSSIFIED by Feminism to the extent
that they'll bend over backwards to meet the childish whims of the
women in their lives and assume, like spoiled children, that any
gesture should automatically be reciprocated regardless of whether the
person on the receiving end actually values it or not. This is akin to
children giving their father an ugly tie and expecting him to wear it
simply because THEY BOUGHT IT. They don't take into account that Dad
might not want to wear an ugly tie. When giving something, they only
take into consideration what THEY VALUE, not what the RECEIVER
actually values..

'Nice guys' are in denial about their own childish approach to women.
They EXPECT reciprocation, yet do not know what the receiver (the
woman in this case) values. They merely assume that whatever they give
will automatically be valued by the receiver. However, these men do
not receive or demand the SAME VALUE in return. They only hope it will
spontaneously happen of its own accord.

E.g. A 'nice guy' will give a girl a gold ring in exchange for a kiss.
This would be like trading a car for a sandwich-- there is a definite
value disparity because the "nice guy" doesn't VALUE himself. And at
the same time he OVERVALUES the woman.

Or he may give a girl a gold ring and get NOTHING in return, maybe
just a cursory thank you.

The 'nice guy' gives away free value and receives no value in return.
Yet he always secretly EXPECTS a return on his value investment. This
secret expectation he habors then becomes the source of his resentment
and the impetus for his self-pitying phrase, "nice guys finish last."

If a woman doesn't respect a man, she will never be attracted to that
man.. By overvaluing a woman, a 'nice guy' shows that he doesn't
respect himself enough to demand the same reciprocation of his own
value.

Without respect, a man is FINISHED. There is no basis for lasting
attraction.

I, on the other hand, am not considered a 'nice guy.'

Am I courteous?... Perhaps. But in female terms, would I be considered
a 'nice guy?' Fuck no...

Yes, I might give a quarter to a bum on the street. BUT I don't expect
anything from him in return-- this would make me 'nice' as I am not
attaching obligation to my giving.

But when I give something to a woman, I ALWAYS EXPECT and ALWAYS
DEMAND something in return. This would make me HONEST. Which in a
woman's eyes would make me, "MEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAN" (aka 'not nice.') And
this is why girls are attracted to me, because I am 'mean' (in female
communication shorthand)... essentially, i don't give my value away
for free as other guys do.

women grow accustomed to receiving free value from guys. a notorious
example of this would be the free drink phenomenon. girls EXPECT guys
to buy them drinks for NOTHING. this makes them 'nice'.. guys who
don't provide free drinks are considered 'mean' because they are not
offering up free value.

In reality, I am simply a guy who expects a return on his value; if I
offer a girl value, I expect and demand, AT THE VERY LEAST, the same
value in return.

I do not buy a girl a drink unless I get a blowjob before she gets her
drink-- C.O.D.

If i give something, i am HONEST enough to let her know that I EXPECT
something in return.

Pussified men, aka 'nice guys', under the oppression of a Feminist
society, are taught to respect women who exhibit the classic 'have
your cake and eat it too' entitlement mentality. These women expect
something for nothing which means they are passively DISRESPECTING MEN
even before engaging them.

E.g. Women EXPECT to have equal pay, yet women don't want to work
equal hours.

Women EXPECT the rights and privileges of men, yet women don't want to
BEAR THE SAME RESPONSIBILITY as men (fight in wars, lift heavy
objects, etc.)

Women EXPECT to be treated like "ladies" and EXPECT "gentlemen" to pay
for their dates. Yet women want to be considered INDEPENDENT and have
the same status as men.

If men are paying for all the dates, then women are DEPENDING UPON
MEN. This means these women are lying about their so-called
independence and are simply trying to HAVE THEIR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO..

And this is why "nice guys finish last." They SHOULD finish last
because any nice guy who kowtows to a woman is like an untrained
parent kowtowing to a spoiled child. Instead of FIRST making the child
show RESPECT to parental authority, the parent vainly attempts to
answer all the demands and expectations of the child.. The parent is
in effect held hostage by the whims of a spoiled brat. The parent
thinks that if it doesn't answer the child's demands, the child will
no longer love it.. But just the opposite is true; if the child
doesn't respect the parent, the bond of love doesn't have a strong
basis..

However, if that parent turns around and disciplines that child
(spanks it), then that child learns to respect the parent. This in
turn makes the bond of love STRONGER because the basis of RESPECT is
there.

In like manner, if a 'nice guy' never learns to DEMAND RESPECT for the
attention he's showing a woman, he will not provide a solid basis for
the woman to be attracted to him. He will forever be dealing with a
spoiled brat who will demand that her needs/expectations be met before
she even budges.

This is why 'nice guys' fall into the self-pity trap. They pity
themselves for being "too nice" and getting nothing in return when in
reality, they should be kicking themselves for being dishonest about
their intentions and not having any self-respect to demand
reciprocation. Instead of complaining that nice guys finish last, they
should really be complaining that dishonest guys who have zero self-
respect SHOULD finish last. Instead of valuing a woman above
themselves, they should have enough self-respect to know that THEY
have just as much, if not more, value than women.

But Feminism has taught 'nice guys' that women are more valuable than
them. Feminism has threatened men with legal consequences for not
believing his fallacy. Hence, pussified men are really a product of
Feminism, and the 'nice guy' is the resulting Frankenstein monster.
Women wanted so badly to have the authority of men, the status of men,
not realizing that they were attempting to BECOME MEN in the process.
And as a result of foolishly attempting to replace the function of
men, they've produced effeminate 'nice guys' in their place.

What do they expect the men to do in the meantime?.. The men have
become FEMALE in their function, deferring and kowtowing to women,
hidden under the ruse of just being 'nice guys.'

When women complain about not being able to find any "good men
around", they're really complaining about not being able to find any
MANHOOD around..

The amazing part of this phenomenon is that pussified men will
actually FIGHT against real men trying to help them regain their
manhood.. This is similar to slaves fighting against fellow slaves who
are trying to educate them about the importance of freedom.. Once the
slave mentality is indoctrinated deeply into a slave, he begins to not
only accept his position, but he will go the further step of actually
trying to JUSTIFY his position. This is exactly what pussified men
attempt to do when confronted with the truth. Instead of wanting to
regain their manhood, they will try to justify their pussification and
then belittle the men who aren't pussies like them.. Such irony would
be comical if it weren't so pitiful.

The poster above refers to "men of character" being shunned by this
feminist society.. and he does have a point. While being a man (ie.
exhibiting MANHOOD) is INHERENTLY attractive to women, outwardly it is
offensive to Feminists today. And most women are feminists because
this society is dominated by Feminism-- you cannot escape it.. On the
tv we are taught that men are incompetent, bumbling, dead beat dads,
or idiots who can't get along without the help of a woman.. And we are
taught that women are stronger, smarter and more capable than men.
Even though this is a delusional viewpoint, it is the DOMINANT
viewpoint forcefed to boys and girls alike. Men in this culture grow
up believing that being an emasculated pussy (aka 'nice guy') is good,
and girls grow up believing that usurping male authority and becoming
a man (aka a 'bitch') is good.

Although women will INNATELY respond to real men, their constant
feminist training from the media, peer groups, friends, family, etc.
continually reinforces the negative feelings they assume they SHOULD
harbor against real men. Hence with their mouths, they may denounce
real men, but with their actions, they show they actually WANT and
NEED real men.. This is why women constantly complain about the
"asshole" they end up dating.. But the irony is it's the ASSHOLES that
attracted them in the first place. These 'assholes' have the spines to
tell women, "NO."

The 'Assholes' (aka 'bad boys') do it out of frustration. They have
been hurt by women to the point where they stop caring what women
think of them. Their spine is based on callousness. So they exhibit
some significant traits of manhood, minus the essential caring part.
This is why women are attracted to them, but also why women eventually
break up with them. While assholes are attractive, they don't meet the
emotional needs of women.

Real "men of character", on the other hand, also tell women "NO". But
they do it out of necessity because they realize that women without
men are like immature children who operate according to their whims.
they tell women "NO" because they realize they are in the authority
position and need to maintain that position..

A man's needs and expectations need to be met just as much as a
woman's needs.. A man of character will make sure his needs are being
met.. A man of character will never kowtow to women who demand their
way, who demand he pay for dinner and drinks or forfeit his
"gentleman" status.. A man of character will never be held hostage to
such childish female antics. and this is what feminists resent about
real men.. They resent the fact that real men expose the hypocrisy and
CHILDISHNESS behind the feminist agenda.

If feminists want to remain in denial about men being smarter,
stronger, more capable than women, etc. fine.. then that means they
want the same status as men-- they want to BE men. so they must
SHOULDER THE SAME RESPONSIBILITY AS MEN.. that means PAYING THEIR OWN
WAY. buying their own dinners and drinks. lifting their own heavy
objects. they must now do ALL the things (not just pick and choose)
that women traditionally expect men to do like fight in the army, kill
spiders, protect other women, provide for women, etc...

but we know most women would never survive this way.. we know most
women could never hack the fire dept., police dept. etc.. we know that
standards have been lowered for women just to get them into these work
areas which dillutes the integrity of those professions..

eg. fire fighters used to have to lift a certain amount of weight to
simulate removing an injured person from a burning building.. but
under the idiocy of Feminism, a woman is assigned the same job simply
to fill a gender quota, REGARDLESS of whether she is qualified to do
the job or not.

the next time someone burns in a building because some dumb bitch
couldn't carry them out, you can thank Feminism for that mockery of
equality.

then we have the second option--DEPENDENCE; women need to ADMIT that
they NEED men, that they cannot do the things that men can do, nor was
this ever in their design..

with dependence comes submission to authority..and this is what women
hate the most. they hate admitting wrongdoing because it wounds their
vanity. they hate admitting submission to male authority actually
makes them happy..

but this is really no different than US citizens submitting to the
governing authority of the USA because the US govt. is RESONSIBLE for
their protection. US citizens reap the benefit of submitting to that
governing authority, just as women reap the benefit of submitting to
male authority..

the poster above is correct in noting that "men of character" are
being persecuted by Feminism. but take heart-- MANHOOD is attractive
to women.. and as much as their Feminist training will protest against
what they consider "controlling" and "abusive" behavior (both cliched
catchwords of the professional victim mentality perpetuated by
Feminism), their ACTIONS will say otherwise..

it's true, a lot of women are damaged goods as a result of feminist
training... but there are women out there who DO respond to real men
and who DO need to be rescued from Feminism..

there are 4 types of women under feminism:

1. a woman who realizes and acknowleges the dangers of Feminism: she
may not be attracted to you if you do not exhibit the principles of
manhood (which overlap the principles of attraction.) BUT she will
respect your authority as a man because she is properly trained to do
so.. and will be highly valuable to any man who enters into a
relationship with her in that regard.

2. a woman who hasn't absorbed much Feminist dogma: she may assume
certain Feminist fallacies, but her naturally submissive nature will
respond to you like a female naturally responding to male authority.

she is not likely to challenge your authority. she will submit to it
without contest in most cases. however, if you do not address the poor
training she harbors as a result of Feminism, she may resent your
MANHOOD, mistaking it for tyranny, as a child who is spanked may
assume the parent is doing it out of hate if the reason for the
spanking isn't addressed.

3. a woman who is damaged by feminist training and doesn't realize it:
she will spout feminist theories and typical chick logic (eg.
"gentlemen pay for everything" even though she declares herself to be
"an independent woman!") BUT she is not so ruined by feminism that she
won't respond to your MANHOOD. she can be retrained by a man who knows
what he's doing, by a man who understands the principles of manhood.

lesser pussified men who exhibit minimal self-respect and who do not
understand the principles of manhood will be waved off like flies. a
large portion of women fall into this category.

4. a woman who is beyond help without the benefit of some extreme
traumatic circumstance/intervention: think Rosie O'Donnel, Oprah,
anyone on The View, etc. women like this are raised to think they ARE
MEN; they will constantly challenge your authority and compete with
you.. these women operate via peer pressure not common sense..

their value will only be salvaged as a result of massive shifts in
ideologies that affect GROUPS of women rather than just individual
women.. their idiocy is reinforced by peer consensus (think Oprah's
audience) and therefore will ultimately require peer consensus to
correct.. the majority of women fall into this category.

thankfully Manhood 101 is dedicated to answering this nonsense..

manhood101.com