> Someone wrote:
>
> "... I find that women outside of the USA tend to like the same
> qualities in men that American women dislike. In general, american
> women will denigrate, oppress, and discriminate against any man that
> has any self respect or character. They tend to only tolerate men who
> are base or weak. Good guys, in American culture, are losers while
> base and weak men are supported by American women.
>
> I traveled to the UK in the late 50's or early 60's as a child.
> Feminism was not prominent in the UK at that time. Men of good
> character were still in fashion then. When I returned to the UK for a
> vacation about 10 years ago, feminism had transformed the society to
> such an extent that good men had been rejected and had been replaced
> by the feminist ideal of the weak and base male.
>
> Good men should leave the USA. It has become an Orwellian world in
> which men that are virtuous and have character are persecuted by the
> feminist society that the USA has become. "
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, the major obstacle to the "nice guy" is Feminism.
>
> But there are a few more problems confusing the issue that need to be
> addressed.
>
> Women do not communicate according to accuracy or accountability.
> Instead they communicate according to FEELING. Anyone who adopts this
> type of childish communication antic will invariably start
> communicating nonsense.
>
> When women speak about being 'nice,' they can mean a million different
> things depending on how they FEEL. But let's just cover the context of
> the sentiment: "nice guy."
>
> A Nice Guy(tm) usually refers to a guy with no spine. It refers to a
> 'YES' man-- a man who will disrespect himself by saying 'YES' to
> whatever a woman says, regardless of how little respect she offers
> him.
>
> There's a difference between being "nice" and being a "pussy." They
> are NOT the same thing.. You can be nice AND have a backbone. It's
> just that most guys often equate being 'nice' with being a pushover..
>
> E.g. I can be 'nice' by returning the respect you show me; If you say,
> "Hello," I might say, "Hello," back. This would cause me to be
> perceived as 'nice.' But guys often confuse this with being a pussy.
>
> E.g. If you say, "Hey fuckface," and I simply say, "Hello," back, I am
> DISRESPECTING myself by not addressing the disrespect you have
> initially shown me.. In female communication shorthand, I would become
> the equivalent of a "nice guy," or what we would call a PASSIVE guy
> with NO SELF-RESPECT.
>
> 'Nice' people can still have self-respect, but most guys who consider
> themselves to be "nice" are ignorant of the fact that they possess
> VERY LITTLE SELF-RESPECT. This is blatantly apparent in the lack of
> reciprocation they experience.
>
> E.g. A 'nice guy' will bring flowers to a girl even though she does
> NOTHING to reciprocate such a gesture. The typical 'nice guy' will
> then further DISRESPECT himself by continuing to bring flowers and
> showering said girl with attention.. He shows respect to this girl,
> yet receives nothing in return-- no blowjobs, no kisses, nada.
>
> A 'nice guy' will DISRESPECT himself by continuing to provide
> unreciprocated attention/words of affection/gestures. Ironically,
> however, so-called 'nice guys' are DISHONEST at the core because they
> EXPECT something just like everyone else. The difference is they are
> too 'nice' to claim it. So they don't get it. If they were truly being
> 'nice' as they claim to be, they wouldn't expect ANYTHING in return.
>
> Helping an old lady across the street would be considered a 'nice'
> thing to do. But if you expect a $5 dollar tip, that wouldn't be so
> 'nice.' A truly 'nice' gesture has no obligation attached to it.
>
> But most 'nice guys' DO EXPECT SOMETHING IN RETURN.. They DO expect to
> have their attention reciprocated. They DO expect to eventually get
> somewhere by showering a girl with attention and words of affection.
>
> So they are being DISHONEST when they proclaim themselves to be
> 'nice' .. These men are actually PUSSIFIED by Feminism to the extent
> that they'll bend over backwards to meet the childish whims of the
> women in their lives and assume, like spoiled children, that any
> gesture should automatically be reciprocated regardless of whether the
> person on the receiving end actually values it or not. This is akin to
> children giving their father an ugly tie and expecting him to wear it
> simply because THEY BOUGHT IT. They don't take into account that Dad
> might not want to wear an ugly tie. When giving something, they only
> take into consideration what THEY VALUE, not what the RECEIVER
> actually values..
>
> 'Nice guys' are in denial about their own childish approach to women.
> They EXPECT reciprocation, yet do not know what the receiver (the
> woman in this case) values. They merely assume that whatever they give
> will automatically be valued by the receiver. However, these men do
> not receive or demand the SAME VALUE in return. They only hope it will
> spontaneously happen of its own accord.
>
> E.g. A 'nice guy' will give a girl a gold ring in exchange for a kiss.
> This would be like trading a car for a sandwich-- there is a definite
> value disparity because the "nice guy" doesn't VALUE himself. And at
> the same time he OVERVALUES the woman.
>
> Or he may give a girl a gold ring and get NOTHING in return, maybe
> just a cursory thank you.
>
> The 'nice guy' gives away free value and receives no value in return.
> Yet he always secretly EXPECTS a return on his value investment. This
> secret expectation he habors then becomes the source of his resentment
> and the impetus for his self-pitying phrase, "nice guys finish last."
>
> If a woman doesn't respect a man, she will never be attracted to that
> man.. By overvaluing a woman, a 'nice guy' shows that he doesn't
> respect himself enough to demand the same reciprocation of his own
> value.
>
> Without respect, a man is FINISHED. There is no basis for lasting
> attraction.
>
> I, on the other hand, am not considered a 'nice guy.'
>
> Am I courteous?... Perhaps. But in female terms, would I be considered
> a 'nice guy?' Fuck no...
>
> Yes, I might give a quarter to a bum on the street. BUT I don't expect
> anything from him in return-- this would make me 'nice' as I am not
> attaching obligation to my giving.
>
> But when I give something to a woman, I ALWAYS EXPECT and ALWAYS
> DEMAND something in return. This would make me HONEST. Which in a
> woman's eyes would make me, "MEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAN" (aka 'not nice.') And
> this is why girls are attracted to me, because I am 'mean' (in female
> communication shorthand)... essentially, i don't give my value away
> for free as other guys do.
>
> women grow accustomed to receiving free value from guys. a notorious
> example of this would be the free drink phenomenon. girls EXPECT guys
> to buy them drinks for NOTHING. this makes them 'nice'.. guys who
> don't provide free drinks are considered 'mean' because they are not
> offering up free value.
>
> In reality, I am simply a guy who expects a return on his value; if I
> offer a girl value, I expect and demand, AT THE VERY LEAST, the same
> value in return.
>
> I do not buy a girl a drink unless I get a blowjob before she gets her
> drink-- C.O.D.
>
> If i give something, i am HONEST enough to let her know that I EXPECT
> something in return.
>
> Pussified men, aka 'nice guys', under the oppression of a Feminist
> society, are taught to respect women who exhibit the classic 'have
> your cake and eat it too' entitlement mentality. These women expect
> something for nothing which means they are passively DISRESPECTING MEN
> even before engaging them.
>
> E.g. Women EXPECT to have equal pay, yet women don't want to work
> equal hours.
>
> Women EXPECT the rights and privileges of men, yet women don't want to
> BEAR THE SAME RESPONSIBILITY as men (fight in wars, lift heavy
> objects, etc.)
>
> Women EXPECT to be treated like "ladies" and EXPECT "gentlemen" to pay
> for their dates. Yet women want to be considered INDEPENDENT and have
> the same status as men.
>
> If men are paying for all the dates, then women are DEPENDING UPON
> MEN. This means these women are lying about their so-called
> independence and are simply trying to HAVE THEIR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO..
>
> And this is why "nice guys finish last." They SHOULD finish last
> because any nice guy who kowtows to a woman is like an untrained
> parent kowtowing to a spoiled child. Instead of FIRST making the child
> show RESPECT to parental authority, the parent vainly attempts to
> answer all the demands and expectations of the child.. The parent is
> in effect held hostage by the whims of a spoiled brat. The parent
> thinks that if it doesn't answer the child's demands, the child will
> no longer love it.. But just the opposite is true; if the child
> doesn't respect the parent, the bond of love doesn't have a strong
> basis..
>
> However, if that parent turns around and disciplines that child
> (spanks it), then that child learns to respect the parent. This in
> turn makes the bond of love STRONGER because the basis of RESPECT is
> there.
>
> In like manner, if a 'nice guy' never learns to DEMAND RESPECT for the
> attention he's showing a woman, he will not provide a solid basis for
> the woman to be attracted to him. He will forever be dealing with a
> spoiled brat who will demand that her needs/expectations be met before
> she even budges.
>
> This is why 'nice guys' fall into the self-pity trap. They pity
> themselves for being "too nice" and getting nothing in return when in
> reality, they should be kicking themselves for being dishonest about
> their intentions and not having any self-respect to demand
> reciprocation. Instead of complaining that nice guys finish last, they
> should really be complaining that dishonest guys who have zero self-
> respect SHOULD finish last. Instead of valuing a woman above
> themselves, they should have enough self-respect to know that THEY
> have just as much, if not more, value than women.
>
> But Feminism has taught 'nice guys' that women are more valuable than
> them. Feminism has threatened men with legal consequences for not
> believing his fallacy. Hence, pussified men are really a product ...
>
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