Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot" wrote:
> I, as "George Orwell" wrote:
>
>> Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot" wrote:
>>
>>
>> Apart from the fact that the above makes no real sense (you don't
>> register names like "
www.domain.com" for example), in the broadest terms
>> I'll give you that this can be (and normally is) true.
>> But there's a bit more to it that that...
>> See below.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> At the risk of repeating myself, that's not true. He can point that
>>>> domain
>>>> name at
www.whitehouse.gov if he wants to.
>>>
>>> That's a redirect. I'm not talking about redirects either.
>>>
>>
>> Ummm....
>> That isn't a "redirect".
>>
>>
>> Not that this will make a difference, but what the hell...
>>
>>
>> Webhosting 101
>>
>> I won't use the word "site". Its meaning can be ambiguous, as it is
>> above. I assume Ray meant "host machine which contains content for the
>> URL" when he said "site".
>> (Terminology IS important sometimes, as Ray should know by now.)
>>
>>
>> The Basics (at least some of them):
>> A) Owning a domain allows you to set up hostnames within that domain.
>> B) DNS (name) servers transform (resolve) hostnames into IP addresses.
>> C) IP addresses are assigned to host machines.
>> D) Host machines store (host) content (eg. webpages).
>> E) An IP address can have more than one hostname pointed at it.
>> F) A hostname NOT pointing at an IP address CANNOT be accessed
>> and thus CANNOT contain any content.
>> G) A host machine with no hostname CAN be accessed, but only
>> by it's IP address. (Assuming it is running a server.)
>
> He left out the role played by the hostname in FTP file transfers. Fact
> is, the domain owner has ultimate control over what appears on that
> domain.
I did that on purpose, since it has nothing to do with what was
being discussed. That was why I wrote the following:
"The Basics (at least some of them):"
What does FTPing up the content have to do with the domain, the IP
address or even where the host machine is anyway?
The hostname I use to upload my website content has no mention
of my domain in it. It's a host belonging to the provider which
hosts my website.
And there is no "ftp.mydomain.tld". It does not exist since I
can't/don't have and FTP server for that domain.
Unlike "
cybersheet.com", my hosting provider is NOT the same
company who provides my domains and DNS service.
This is not unusual.
> Calling it "pointing" instead of "publishing" doesn't change the substance
> of what transpires, which is publishing.
If I had meant to say "publishing" that is the word I would have used.
If I write anything further I'll be sure to use "has DNS records which
resolve to" in place of "pointing", which I though was clear enough
for these "non-technical" newsgroups. I guess I was wrong.
And what does "publishing" have to do with how you get to a webpage?
That is what was being discussed, if I remember correctly.
Before you pick on anyone elses phrasing, check your own.
Being pedantic doesn't do you any favors Ray.
> My domain points at a server on my webhost, but the content is published
> by me, even if it exists on their server, because I control what appears
> when
> someone types my domain into a browser. Having a third party do the
> uploading doesn't change that one bit.
>
Pedantic Mode On:
Your domain doesn't "point" anywhere Ray.
Nor does it "publish" anywhere.
There is a DNS record for the hostname "
www.cybersheet.com" which
resolves to an IP address assigned to a server owned by your webhost,
to which you have limited (direct or indirect) upload access to
publish content.
That is only true because you CHOOSE to "point" (create DNS records for)
the hostname "
www.cybersheet.com" "at" (which resolve to) an IP address
where you have access.
Pedantic Mode Off:
You could CHOOSE to do otherwise.
Which IS what was being discussed, and which is what you refuse to
even accept as possible.
This mythical "third party" has control over their host machines, which
still in no way relates to a domain owner having control over what is
being "published" if that domain owner is not in fact the "third party".
Right, I'm done...
It's Christmas and if I didn't have the cold I wouldn't be stuck at
home posting to usenet.
Your next post can declare victory if you want Ray, I've said all I
meant to say on this subject.
That you choose not to listen is not my problem.
>> Which was just a long way of saying hostnames (such as the above example
>> of "
www.domain.com") are not equivalent to host machines or IP addresses.
>>
>>
>> An Example: (invalid IPs/domains to protect the innocent.)
>> 1) John Doe owns the domain "interesting.tld"
>> 2) The hostname "
www.interesting.tld" has DNS records which point
>> to the IP address
10.1.2.3
>> 3) The host machine which has been assigned the IP address
10.1.2.3
>> hosts John Does interesting webpages.
>>
>> Clear so far?
>> Good.
>> Now to the important bit.
>>
>> 4) I own the domain "boring.tld"
>> 5) I set the DNS records for "
www.boring.tld" to point to
10.1.2.3
>>
>>
>> None of the individuals mentioned "own" the host machine which has been
>> assigned the IP address
10.1.2.3, that belongs to LargeHostingProvider
>> Inc
>> which hosts John Does content for a fee. John Doe can log in and
>> transfer whatever content he wishes to the host machine.
>>
>> (And yes, I know that the host machine for
10.1.2.3 could be sitting in
>> John Does house on the end of a cable/DSL/dialup account, but that means
>> this whole "control of content" issue is even more ridiculous so for this
>> example assume that it isn't.)
>>
>>
>> Later, back at the ranch...
>>
>> 6) Joe Sixpack types "
http://www.interesting.tld" into his browser.
>> 6a) DNS lookups occur, "
www.interesting.tld" =
10.1.2.3
>> 7) Interesting pages show up from the host machine at
10.1.2.3
>>
>> All fine. Everything working as expected.
>>
>> 8) Joe Sixpack types "
http://www.boring.tld" into his browser.
>> 8a) DNS lookups occur, "
www.boring.tld" =
10.1.2.3
>> 9) Interesting pages show up from the host machine at
10.1.2.3
>>
>> Still all fine. Everything still working as expected.
>> Yay! The internet is great, and (almost) everyone is happy :-D
>>
>>
>>
>> In the above real-world example where is the redirection?
>>
>> In the above real-world example how could I control what shows
>> up when "
http://www.boring.tld" is viewed, other than by pointing
>> the hostname at another IP address?
>>
>> I, as the owner of "boring.tld", have zero control over what
>> content John Doe chooses to put on the machine at
10.1.2.3.
>>
>> So unless by "redirection" you mean "perfectly normal DNS
>> resolution of host names to IP addresses" there is no redirection.
>>
>>
>> This probably isn't obvious to someone with only basic internet
>> knowledge (naming no names....), but that doesn't make it "not true".
>>
