On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:26:26 +0300,
holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:

You certainly seem to be for it collapsing aren't you? What would be left? Socialism "the
stepping stone" to communism?

But you wish for America to become like Europe. That is why I responded as I did.

Which is very socialist of them.

Socialism.

HOORAY and may it always stay that way.

But you are a socialist and you are in self-denial.

At the expense of the producers.

It has to be your high taxation because I remember the days when M-B encouraged Americans to
come to Germany to purchase M-Bs which were "Americanized" and save on al the duties etc. and
have a vacation and still save a bundle before the Liberal Democrats closed up that loophole.

Because you are being gouged in other ways but you can't or won't see it.
Socialism is bad. It strangles the producers and the non-producers benefit.
Socialism doesn't encourage excelling it seeks equalization.

Have a good day at your government job Eugene.

Read this and it is from the Communist Party USA and tell me again that you aren't a socialist.

http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/13/
Socialism USA
Author: Gus Hall (1910-2000), former National Chair
First published: 01/01/1996 00:00 by the Communist Party, USA

We Communists believe that socialism is the very best replacement for a capitalist system that
has served its purpose, but no longer meets the needs and requirements of the great majority of
our people.

[...]

Socialism starts with nationalization of the main means of production - the plants, factories,
agri-business farms and everything necessary to produce what society needs. The large monopoly
corporations and banks come under public ownership, that is, under the collective ownership of
the entire working class and people, who have the leading role in building socialism. (It is
not the common person but those "who have the leading role in building socialism" or the party
bosses who will run the show Eugene and the producers won't have any choice in the matter.)

Socialism also means public ownership of the energy industry and all the natural resources. It
eliminates forever the power of the capitalist class to exploit and oppress the majority.

A socialist government draws up plans covering the entire economy...

Public services - schools, hospitals, utilities, transit, parks, roads - are crumbling under
capitalism... (Sounds just exactly like what you espouse Eugene)

Path to Socialism

We say that it may be possible in the U.S. to bring socialism through peaceful means. Perhaps
through the ballot box...

I like to say that when workers enter the corporate board rooms to take over and the ruling
class says: O.K. you're right, we made a mess of things and now you should run it all. Well
then there won't be any trouble. But if the ruling class says: Forget it! And call out the army
and the police and the national guard, then that is how revolutions become violent. It starts
with the ruling class. Workers and their allies have to defend themselves and to fight for what
is rightfully theirs...

Can't deal with what Bill Cosby said about slackers can you or what Patrck Buchanan said about
true racism.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/cosby.asp

Urban Legends Reference Pages: Bill Cosby on Blaming White People

Cos Cause

Claim: Comedian Bill Cosby's remarks form the "We Can't Blame White
People" essay.

Status: True.

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2005]

They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't
even talk the way these people talk: Why you ain't, Where you is,
What he drive, Where he stay, Where he work, Who you be... And I
blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the
father talk.

Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these
knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming
out of your mouth. In fact you will never get any kind of job making
a decent living.

People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an
education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around. The
lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.
These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.
$500 sneakers for what? And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on
Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing
there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was 2? Where were
you when he was 12? Where were you when he was 18 and how come you
didn't know that he had a pistol? And where is the father? Or who is
his father?

People putting their clothes on backward: Isn't that a sign of
something gone wrong? People with their hats on backward, pants down
around the crack, isn't that a sign of something? Or are you waiting
for Jesus to pull his pants up? Isn't it a sign of something when
she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles
[piercing] going through her body?

What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those
people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa. With
names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and
all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white
person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. People
used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight
different 'husbands' — or men or whatever you call them now. We have
millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar
basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We as black folks
have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven
kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a
higher standard.

We cannot blame the white people any longer.

Origins: On 17 May 2004, at an NAACP event commemorating the 50th
anniversary of Brown vs. Board of Education, the landmark Supreme Court
decision that struck down school segregation, entertainer Bill Cosby
voiced the assertions quoted above. In his exposition to that assembly,
the man known to television viewing audiences as lovable, kindly, yet
permanently bemused patriarch Dr. Huxtable spoke harshly about his
perception of the ills affecting black American society. He cited elevated
school dropout rates for inner-city black students and criticized
low-income blacks for not using the opportunities the civil rights
movement has won for them. Blacks, by their unplanned pregnancies, poor
parenting, lack of education, non-standard English, counter-culture dress,
and involvement in crime, fail the black community as well as themselves,
he said.

Parts of that May 2004 speech were cobbled together into "We Can't Blame
White People," a widely-circulated essay that has been both damned and
praised.

Bill Cosby has not repudiated his controversial pronouncements or
attempted to distance himself from them. Instead, he has chosen to expand
upon his theme on subsequent occasions and to make himself a spokesperson
for black self-empowerment through education and better parenting. In
serving this cause, he draws upon his celebrity to make his voice heard
but, unlike many entertainers who take to the soapbox to decry their bêtes
noires, he brings far more to the podium than merely a recognizable face
and a fan base. This man who is best known to the world as a comedian
holds a doctorate in education. He is also highly regarded in the
African-American community, where he and his wife, Camille, are prized for
their philanthropy. (The Cosbys were present at the NAACP event that
sparked the e-mail quoted above in order to be honored for their
open-handed generosity in donating money to black
colleges.)

Cosby defended his comments almost as soon as he made them. The day after,
he said in an interview: "It makes no sense to claim that these are things
that belong quietly in the black community. We have to figure out how do
you get parenting back into the home. This is a problem of epic
proportion." Then, in a statement released shortly after the NAACP gala,
he made clear his purpose: "I think that it is time for concerned
African-Americans to march, galvanize and raise the awareness about this
epidemic, to transform our helplessness, frustration and righteous
indignation into a sense of shared responsibility and action." In another
interview, he said: "I feel that I can no longer remain silent. If I have
to make a choice between keeping quiet so that conservative media does not
speak negatively or ringing the bell to galvanize those who want change in
the lower economic community, then I choose to be a bell ringer."

In July 2004, he again took to the public soapbox to expound upon his
thesis. In a speech given at Rev. Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition/PUSH
Coalition conference in Chicago, he said: "You've got to stop beating up
your women because you can't find a job, because you didn't want to get an
education and now you're (earning) minimum wage. You should have thought
more of yourself when you were in high school, when you had an
opportunity."

In December 2004, he addressed a panel at Medgar Evers College in
Brooklyn, telling them: "Stop waiting for a leader. Get Up! Tell your
friends. And if they can't get up, we must see about them because they are
true victims ... It's time to study four hours a day with your children.
Teach them how much they'll be worth when they have A's instead of F's."

While the criticisms voiced by Bill Cosby are greeted by some as a
long-needed airing of problems everyone recognizes but no one talks about,
others regard them as unfairly saddling lower-income blacks with sole
responsibility for their plight. "He unerringly and wrongly blames the
poor. He seems to think that if they would only change their minds, all
their problems would go away," said Ronald Walters, director of the
African American Leadership Institute at the University of Maryland.

Critics also fear that citing failures of lower-income blacks to make the
most of educational opportunities and to eschew choices that limit
potential for success (poor use of language, early parenting, often
unpartnered) gives white people the much-welcomed easy out of declaring
themselves devoid of any responsibility for the cause or continuation of
black poverty in America: "See? It's not us that puts them in the ghettos
or keeps them there, it's them." Such disavowal, while comforting to those
who instinctively seize it when it appears to have been offered, ignores
the possibility of racial economic disparity's being the result of a
combination of contributing factors rather than an either/or "If you did
it, then I didn't" proposition.

Last, Cosby's black-negative assessments could, as some have pointed out,
serve as confirmations long sought by racists of their view that
African-Americans are inherently incapable of helping themselves, which
they would hold up as proof of their theory of black genetic inferiority.

While the relative merit of Bill Cosby's pronouncements is in dispute,
what is not is the sincerity of the man who made them.

Barbara "sag your pants, sag your chances, says Cos" Mikkelson

It is the group above and the illegal alien criminals who are wrecking our health care system
and way of life. There are no ifs, ands or buts about it. That is not nazi ideology either.

I have to add this too;

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25634
A Brief for Whitey
by Patrick J. Buchanan

How would he pull it off? I wondered.

How would Barack explain to his press groupies why he sat silent in a pew for 20 years as the
Rev. Jeremiah Wright delivered racist rants against white America for our maligning of Fidel
and Gadhafi, and inventing AIDS to infect and kill black people?

How would he justify not walking out as Wright spewed his venom about "the U.S. of K.K.K.
America," and howled, "God damn America !"

My hunch was right. Barack would turn the tables.

Yes, Barack agreed, Wright's statements were "controversial," and "divisive," and "racially
charged," reflecting a "distorted view of America ."

But we must understand the man in full and the black experience out of which the Rev. Wright
came: 350 years of slavery and segregation.

Barack then listed black grievances and informed us what white America must do to close the
racial divide and heal the country.

The "white community," said Barack, must start "acknowledging that what ails the
African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of
discrimination -- and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past --
are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds ... ."

And what deeds must we perform to heal ourselves and our country?

The "white community" must invest more money in black schools and communities, enforce civil
rights laws, ensure fairness in the criminal justice system and provide this generation of
blacks with "ladders of opportunity" that were "unavailable" to Barack's and the Rev. Wright's
generations.

What is wrong with Barack's prognosis and Barack's cure?

Only this. It is the same old con, the same old shakedown that black hustlers have been running
since the Kerner Commission blamed the riots in Harlem, Watts, Newark, Detroit and a hundred
other cities on, as Nixon put it, "everybody but the rioters themselves."

Was "white racism" really responsible for those black men looting auto dealerships and liquor
stores, and burning down their own communities, as Otto Kerner said -- that liberal icon until
the feds put him away for bribery.

Barack says we need to have a conversation about race in America .

Fair enough. But this time, it has to be a two-way conversation. White America needs to be
heard from, not just lectured to.

This time, the Silent Majority needs to have its convictions, grievances and demands heard. And
among them are these:

First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000
black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were
introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity
blacks have ever known.

Wright ought to go down on his knees and thank God he is an American.

Second, no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold
trillions have been spent since the '60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8
housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and
poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream.

Governments, businesses and colleges have engaged in discrimination against white folks -- with
affirmative action, contract set-asides and quotas -- to advance black applicants over white
applicants.

Churches, foundations, civic groups, schools and individuals all over America have donated time
and money to support soup kitchens, adult education, day care, retirement and nursing homes for
blacks.

We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?

Barack talks about new "ladders of opportunity" for blacks.

Let him go to Altoona and Johnstown , and ask the white kids in Catholic schools how many were
visited lately by Ivy League recruiters handing out scholarships for "deserving" white kids.

Is white America really responsible for the fact that the crime and incarceration rates for
African-Americans are seven times those of white America ? Is it really white America 's fault
that illegitimacy in the African-American community has hit 70 percent and the black dropout
rate from high schools in some cities has reached 50 percent?

Is that the fault of white America or, first and foremost, a failure of the black community
itself?

As for racism, its ugliest manifestation is in interracial crime, and especially interracial
crimes of violence. Is Barack Obama aware that while white criminals choose black victims 3
percent of the time, black criminals choose white victims 45 percent of the time?

Is Barack aware that black-on-white rapes are 100 times more common than the reverse, that
black-on-white robberies were 139 times as common in the first three years of this decade as
the reverse?

We have all heard ad nauseam from the Rev. Al about Tawana Brawley, the Duke rape case and Jena
. And all turned out to be hoaxes. But about the epidemic of black assaults on whites that are
real, we hear nothing.

Sorry, Barack, some of us have heard it all before, about 40 years and 40 trillion tax dollars
ago.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Buchanan is a nationally syndicated columnist and author of "The Death of the West," "The
Great Betrayal," "A Republic, Not an Empire" and "Where the Right Went Wrong."