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Author: Mike SullivanMike Sullivan Date: Sep 18, 2007 21:37
The mormons and ex-mormons on ARM are all pretty bright people. I have a
couple questions for ex-mormons. Then I have questions for current Mormons
who were not always Mormons. I don't know what to do with the rest of us.
The first three questions for ex-mormons who changed to another religion:
1. Was the conversion more to do with faith or with reason?
2. If mostly faith, how is the quality of your relationship w/ God
different than it was as a Mormon?
3. If mostly reason, what would you give as evidence that your current
beliefs are more rational than your Mormon beliefs were?
The next two are for ex-mormons who rejected religion entirely. Most
ARMites I've read here came to this
position after finding obvious contradictions between their beliefs and
reality and having to come to terms with it.
1. Were you a fervent TBM or did you always house some doubts?
2. There was some point when you realized you were rejecting your beliefs,
what exactly caused this? IE, certainly strong emotions were involved in
the process, but was there first an emotional crisis, or first a realization
of a rational disconnect that you wanted to make sense of?
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Author: DaleDale Date: Sep 19, 2007 02:42
On Sep 18, 1:37 pm, "Mike Sullivan" slacSNIP.stanford.edu>
wrote:
I'll bite, Mike...
> The next three are like the first three, but are for current Mormons who
> converted.
>
> 1. Was the conversion more to do with faith or with reason?
Both. With faith, these constructs are not mutually exclusive
realities. Two scriptures come to mind:
1. "But without faith it is impossible to please him (God): for he
that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder
of them that diligently seek him." Heb. 11: 6
2. "Yea, signs come by faith, unto mighty works, for without faith no
man pleaseth God; and with whom God is angry he is not well pleased;
wherefore, unto such he showeth no signs, only in wrath unto their
condemnation." D&C 63: 11
> 2. If mostly faith, how is the quality of your relationship w/ God
> different than it was before becoming a Mormon?
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Author: Mike SullivanMike Sullivan Date: Sep 19, 2007 03:08
> On Sep 18, 1:37 pm, "Mike Sullivan" slacSNIP.stanford.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'll bite, Mike...
no trickses... just interested.
Thanks
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Author: Jeff ShirtonJeff Shirton Date: Sep 19, 2007 03:21
> By many Protestant definitions, I was "saved" when I was 10 years old
> and saw "evidence" of God everywhere in nature, even as a budding
> zoologist and naturalist who applied and benefited from the scientific
> method at the university level.
I don't know *any* "Protestant definitions" of salvation based on
mere acknowledgement of the "evidence" of God. Please name
these alleged Protestant groups along with websites to their
statements of belief which support your assertions.
> Pre-LDS, I knew God existed and my appreciation for Him was somewhat
> limited to a) a profound, sacred "spiritual experience" that I had
> while praying to Him when I was 10, b) the Bible, and c) my processing
> of nature and life that was shaped by a) and c). (The expression of my
> "God gene" was probably well primed ;-)
Hardly a Biblical definition of salvation according to *any*
Protestant denomination I'm aware of.
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Author: john pjohn p Date: Sep 19, 2007 05:18
On Sep 18, 11:37 am, "Mike Sullivan" slacSNIP.stanford.edu>
wrote:> The mormons and ex-mormons on ARM are all pretty bright people.
> 1. Were you a fervent TBM or did you always house some doubts?
I had no doubts for a time.
> 2. There was some point when you realized you were rejecting your >beliefs, yup
> what exactly caused this?
The cognitive dissonance began from reading church history, from
church sources even.
>IE, certainly strong emotions were involved in
> the process, but was there first an emotional crisis, or first a realization
> of a rational disconnect that you wanted to make sense of?
>
Emotions were a hurdle to rejecting the discovered lie. My
transition was initiated by reason, or the inconsistencies found in
mormonology.
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Author: Mike SullivanMike Sullivan Date: Sep 19, 2007 05:52
> On Sep 18, 1:37 pm, "Mike Sullivan" slacSNIP.stanford.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'll bite, Mike...
>>> The next three are like the first three, but are for current Mormons who
>> converted.
>>
>> 1. Was the conversion more to do with faith or with reason?
>
> Both. With faith, these constructs are not mutually exclusive
> realities. Two scriptures come to mind:
>
> 1. "But without faith it is impossible to please him (God): for he
> that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder
> of them that diligently seek him." Heb. 11: 6 ...
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Author: Mike SullivanMike Sullivan Date: Sep 19, 2007 05:56
>> By many Protestant definitions, I was "saved" when I was 10 years old
>> and saw "evidence" of God everywhere in nature, even as a budding
>> zoologist and naturalist who applied and benefited from the scientific
>> method at the university level.
>
> I don't know *any* "Protestant definitions" of salvation based on
> mere acknowledgement of the "evidence" of God. Please name
> these alleged Protestant groups along with websites to their
> statements of belief which support your assertions.
Jeff.
Did you find my questions quite uninteresting?
That's ok by me, but why is it that you criticize Dale's beliefs yet don't
offer any enlightenment of your own?
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Author: Mike SullivanMike Sullivan Date: Sep 19, 2007 06:05
> On Sep 18, 11:37 am, "Mike Sullivan" slacSNIP.stanford.edu>
> wrote:>> The mormons and ex-mormons on ARM are all pretty bright people.
>
>> 1. Were you a fervent TBM or did you always house some doubts?
>
> I had no doubts for a time.
>
>> 2. There was some point when you realized you were rejecting your
>>>beliefs, yup
>
>> what exactly caused this?
>
> The cognitive dissonance began from reading church history, from
> church sources even.
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Author: NancyNancy Date: Sep 19, 2007 06:22
Not exactly from an "ARMite" but posted on Mormon Recovery
Subject: I was baptized 19 years ago todayDate: Sep 18
10:29Author:fellaMail Address:
Happy anniversary to me! It is hard to believe the twists and turns of
this journey with the corporation. I started...
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Author: Mike SullivanMike Sullivan Date: Sep 19, 2007 06:56
> Not exactly from an "ARMite" but posted on Mormon Recovery
>
Nancy
You seem to be a thoughtful poster. Are my questions too dull to answer?
Mike
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