http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/ Posts for alt.religion.biblestudy Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:00:19 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/ http://www.nnseek.com/img/64.png 64 64 NNSeek http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/to_better_understand_god_s_word_the_bible_we_do_word_132584196t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/to_better_understand_god_s_word_the_bible_we_do_word_132584196t.html in article 4ax.com>,
old man joe home.com> wrote:

>
> while those so chosen by the love, mercy and grace of God to sit at
>His right hand with our Lord Jesus Christ ( Eph. 2:6 cp Ps. 17:1-7 )
>are commanded to " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman
>that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth "
>2 Tim. 2:15, one of the most profitable ways in which to learn
>doctrine is through the study of individual words of Holy Scripture.
>
> for example, the word " world ... cosmos " as used by the Apostle
>John, has 7 distinctly different usage definitions. few know this.
>so as to understand and be filled with the joy of salvation by His
>Holy Spirit we delve deeply into His Word from which we derive the
>unspeakable fullness of knowing and being known by our most gracious
>Heavenly Father through Jesus Christ our Blessed Savior.


And when studying the word "world", one must not exclude the
definitive example set forth in John 12:47ff.:

47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him
not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one
that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall
judge him in the last day.

Here, the "world" Christ came to save, is clearly established
as including those who "believe not", reject Christ, and
receive not His words. These people will not be judged by
Christ, because they are part of the "world" He came to save.
Rather, they will be judged by the gospel ("word") He spoke to
them, and which they rejected.

You can't have men being judged by the gospel, for rejecting
the gospel, unless the gospel was being offered to them. It
couldn't be offered to them unless Christ was really their
Savior, and He couldn't be their Savior, unless He died to pay
for their sins. Otherwise, they would be condemned for
failing to believe a lie.

No, those unbelievers who reject Christ's words will be judged
by His gospel, not by Him, because He came to save the world,
including those who reject His offer.

--
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself
up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ. †2 Corinthians 10:5

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]]> Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:00:19 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/the_son_of_man_did_not_come_to_be_served_but_to_serve_132557316t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/the_son_of_man_did_not_come_to_be_served_but_to_serve_132557316t.html 4ax.com> old man
joe home.com> wrote:

>
> while the Universalists preach a gospel of Universal
> Atonement, yet
> again abundant proof is found in the Holy Scriptures which
> announces to the contrary... such as in Mt. 20:28
>
> such declarations are found also in the Old Testament; Isa.
> 53:10-12 for example " By His knowledge the Righteous One, My
> Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their
> iniquities. "
>
> such direct statements as to the purpose of the Father to
> save for
> Himself a people to His own Name through the redemption which
> is in Christ Jesus can not, by the Holy Spirit, be taught by
> Him anything
> other than the truth. Jn. 16:13.
>
> the Universalists call the Most Blessed Trinity, a liar...
> singling
> out the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit to blaspheme The
> Name...
> doubting the Almighty's wisdom; contradicting His purpose;
> rejecting His Word.
>
> when the Apostle Paul in Romans 5:15-19 teaches the elect of
> God the
> workings of the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, he begins
> by saying...
>
> " But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by
> the
> transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace
> of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ,
> abound to the many. "
>
> here, not only is Limited Atonement taught by the Apostle,

No, it isn't. Paul said "many" have died, because of Adam's
transgression, and just as "many" will be made alive by Christ.

> since it
> is the consistent doctrine of the Bible, and what is written is
> God's
> Word is not... " a matter of one's own interpretation,
>
> " because no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will,
> but
> men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. " 2 Pet.
> 1:16-21... Noah
> in the ancient world for example... but by the Holy Spirit...
>
> but Unconditional Election is taught here as well. the
> redeemed
> ones did no such thing as " make a decision for Christ, " or
> repeat some patented " sinners prayer " designed by the
> Universalists... His
> true sons were appointed to eternal life and then they
> believed. Acts
> 13:48. all of the glory for the doing goes to God, not man...
>
> his will doesn't, in the slightest way, enter into the work
> of God
> in saving the many. Jn. 1:12.13. Salvation is God's work. Jn.
> 6:29.
>
> why then do the Universalists, with their preaching of
> Universal
> Atonement persist and insist that Christ redeemed everyone ?

John said Christ is the "propitiation" for our sins, and also for
the sins of the whole world. How can that be, unless his death
has redeemed us all?

1 John 2:1-3
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin
not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world.
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his
commandments.

Paul said that Christ "died for all."

2 Corinthians 5:14-15
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge,
that if one died for all, then were all dead:
And that he died for all, that they which live should not
henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for
them, and rose again.

Jesus said *all things* have been given to him;

John 3:35
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his
hand.

Does not this mean the destiny of every human is in the hand of
Jesus?

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that
cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

The Father has given "all things" to Jesus; so all will come to
him.

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all
which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise
it up again at the last day.

Jesus said that it is God's will that none will be lost. This is
contrary to the teachings of Augustine and Calvin.

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto
me.

Jesus will "draw all men" to himself.


> and let us not forget that unbelief is a sin for which Christ
> paid the penalty... why then do these teach that God is a liar
> ?
>
> simply because these are doing exactly what comes natural for
> the
> sons of Satan... to blaspheme The Name; to pervert God's Word;
> to
> trample under foot the Person and work of Jesus Christ; to
> make the free gift come at a cost...
>
> "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the
> kingdom of
> heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven.
>
> Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not
> prophesy
> in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your
> name perform many miracles?'
>
> And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART
> FROM ME,
> YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS." Mt. 7:21-23

They are excluded from the kingdom of heaven, (vs. 21) but it
does not mean they are doomed to unending infernal torment. That
is a pagan superstition.

>
> these, are the ' many ' of which Paul speaks in Romans 5:19
> who've
> died and will die... eternal death... while the other ' many '
> Paul speaks of in the same verse, are those who've been given
> and shall be given the free gift of life eternal in the bosom
> of the Living God.

The phrase "eternal death" does not occur in the KJV. But there
are many references to "eternal life"!

Scripture says death is an enemy, that is to be destroyed. How
can any one remain dead, when death is destroyed?

>
> Universal Atonement without Universal Salvation means Christ
> failed
> at Calvary, and its the devils lie as those who abound in self
> glorying in the flesh so proudly claim as they profess to the
> world that they are their own co-redeemers.

Jesus said, "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the
kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by
force." [Matthew 11:12] So he encouraged men not only to seek,
but also to strive to enter the kingdom of God, even at great
cost. See the parable of the man seeking goodly pearls. [Matthew
13:44-46]

1 Corinthians 10:12
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he
fall.

--
Doug

http://vinyl2.sentex.ca/~tcc/OP/

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]]> Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:14:17 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/the_living_god_who_is_the_savior_of_all_men_especially_132453124t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/the_living_god_who_is_the_savior_of_all_men_especially_132453124t.html 4ax.com> old man
joe home.com> wrote:

>
> another verse so expounded by the Fundamentalist types so as
> to mean
> that the substitutional death of Christ makes Him the Savior of
> all men... if they would only grace God by being their own
> co-redeemer through some patented sinners prayer or some
> decision they have made to follow Christ... salvation by doing
> something good towards God so as to merit salvation by that
> doing.
>
> thanks be to God in Christ that salvation is unconditional
> and
> taught so by the Savior Himself as in Luke chapter four. that
> salvation is not by the will of man as in Jn. 1:12,13. but
> that the
> glory for the doing goes to God. Ro. 3:27 because of Ro. 1:16-
> 3:26
> " Salvation belongs to the LORD. " Ps. 3:8
>
> what does it mean then when Paul writes saying " ...the
> living God,
> who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. " ?
>
> for the Living God to be the Savior of " all men " simply
> means
> God... " makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and
> sends
> rain on the just and on the unjust. " Mt. 5:45


The sun shines on the grass and the trees. And the rain waters
them. Does that make God the "saviour of all grass"? And
the "saviour of all trees"?

Since the sun shines on the insects too, does that mean God
is "the saviour of all the flies," and "the saviour of all
grasshoppers"?

By old man joe's logic, it must!

In his post, old man joe attempts to negate the words of Paul in
1 Timothy 4:10, which say God is the "Saviour of all men"
contrary to joe's Calvinist theology. He clearly promotes a
distorted version of the gospel, such as was foretold by the
prophet Joel, when he wrote about the sun being turned to
darkness. The sun is a symbol of the gospel!

Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

Early church fathers introduced pagan ideas of the immortality of
the soul, and unending infernal torment of unbelievers,
perverting the true gospel of the apostles. Augustine and Calvin
reasoned that some men were predestined to be lost!

The gospel is represented by the sun, in Revelation 12:1, where
the sun clothes the woman in heaven; she represents the Church.
But Joel's prophecy shows that the light and truth of the gospel
was obscured, by theologians, as foretold in the NT; for example
in 2 Peter 2, and by Paul in 2 Timothy 4:2-4:

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove,
rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound
doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to
themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall
be turned unto fables.

This is what happened in the early Church. They merged Plato's
teaching about man having an immortal soul with Christian
doctrine. Augustine imported the fable of unending infernal
torment of unbelievers from his Manichaean past.

Paul said,

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we
trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men,
specially of those that believe.

When Paul called Christ "the saviour of all men" in the above
scripture, he was not referring to the sun warming them. The sun
is not God, but it is referred to as a symbol of the gospel in
several prophecies, and rain is used as a symbol of God's word.
Jesus said the sun shines on the evil and the good, and the rain
falls on the just and the unjust. The gospel will enlighten all
men too; "In him was life; and the life was the light of men"
John wrote, John 1:4. And "That was the true Light, which
lighteth every man that cometh into the world," John 1:9.

This means that all men will eventually be taught the gospel!
Jesus said, "they shall be all taught of God," John 6:45.

The rain is a symbol of God's word, for example in Isaiah's
prophecy:

Isaiah 55:9-11
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways
higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and
returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it
bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and
bread to the eater:

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall
not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I
please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Calvinists like old man joe trying to thwart the words of God,
which destroy their "limited atonement" doctrine, are like puny
men trying to halt the rain! It is utterly futile.

>
> that the Living God is the Savior of all men reminds His
> chosen ones
> of a similar text which says " God demonstrates His own love
> toward
> us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. "
> Ro. 5:8. had God not preserved His Creation His elect ones
> would not be. He will continue to let His rain fall on the
> wicked man's farm as well as the chosen ones farm... in this
> manner God is the Savior of " all " men... His benevolence
> extends to the lost and to the saved.
>
> Universal Atonement is not taught in this verse. Universal
> Atonement without Universal Salvation is the same as saying
> Jesus Christ failed at Calvary... that God did not send Him...
> that we must look for the real Savior and we are yet dead in
> trespasses and sins.
>
> Universal Atonement calls God a liar.
>
> when Paul writes saying " especially of believers, " it is
> crystal
> clear to the elect that our Beloved Savior Jesus Christ bore
> our sins
> on the cross and justified us freely through His blood. Ro.
> 3:24
>
> " freely " means His chosen ones didnt earn it by some
> patented
> sinners prayer, by some decision we've made, or by any other
> man
> boasting means, but while we were yet sinners, Christ died for
> " us. " Ro. 5:8. Paul is writing to believers... Ro.
> 1:1-7... those
> that perish think the things of God are ridiculous. 1 Cor.
> 1:18

Contrary to the Calvinist doctrine of "limited atonement,"
scripture teaches Christ died for all.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge,
that if one died for all, then were all dead:

If that were not true, the following saying would not apply to
everyone, but only some, those called the "elect." But Paul said
it is a saying that all can accept:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that
Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am
chief.

--
Doug

http://vinyl2.sentex.ca/~tcc/OP/

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]]> Sat, 20 Sep 2008 07:31:30 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/yippi_bible_readings_today_19_23_9_008_just_another_132390148t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/yippi_bible_readings_today_19_23_9_008_just_another_132390148t.html weekend, The Readings today and the next few days follow.

Bible Readings for today.
1 Chron. 2
Ezekiel. 15
Luke. 11

Bible Readings for 20/9
1 Chron. 3
Ezekiel. 16
Luke. 12

Bible Readings for 21/9
1 Chron. 4
Ezekiel. 17
Luke. 13-14

Bible Readings for 22/9
1 Chron. 5
Ezekiel. 18
Luke. 115

Bible Readings for 23/9
1 Chron. 6
Ezekiel. 19
Luke. 16

For those who want to go directly to the source of this study guide,
it can be found at http://www.antipas.org/readings/readings.html

It takes normally between 20-30 mins per day depending on one's reading
speed.
It will be found many unanswered questions which may have seemed puzzling
and "Hard to be understood" are slowly and precisely answered as the Bible
is methodically read through day after day.

Here is a helpful link for anyone who either does not have a Bible to
hand, or might prefer reading from their computer, or might want to compare
different translations, or even read non-English versions:
http://www.biblegateway.com/

And for those who wish to listen to the Bible while doing their chores.
http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html

Comments and suggestions are welcome.
Jeff Hickling.
1 Cor. 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things,
and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."

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]]> Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:41:40 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/yippi_bible_readings_today_18_9_008_just_another_14_132289284t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/yippi_bible_readings_today_18_9_008_just_another_14_132289284t.html Daily Readings for the last eight months. For by the end of this month they
will have read almost three-quarters of the Old Testament, and one and a
half times of the New.
May God bless your continued effort and dedication.

Bible Readings for today.
1 Chron. 1
Ezekiel. 14
Luke. 10

For those who want to go directly to the source of this study guide,
it can be found at http://www.antipas.org/readings/readings.html

It takes normally between 20-30 mins per day depending on one's reading
speed.
It will be found many unanswered questions which may have seemed puzzling
and "Hard to be understood" are slowly and precisely answered as the Bible
is methodically read through day after day.

Here is a helpful link for anyone who either does not have a Bible to
hand, or might prefer reading from their computer, or might want to compare
different translations, or even read non-English versions:
http://www.biblegateway.com/

And for those who wish to listen to the Bible while doing their chores.
http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html

Comments and suggestions are welcome.
Jeff Hickling.
1 Cor. 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things,
and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."

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]]> Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:07:35 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/yippi_bible_readings_today_17_9_008_just_another_14_132192260t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/yippi_bible_readings_today_17_9_008_just_another_14_132192260t.html Daily Readings for the last eight months. For by the end of this month they
will have read almost three-quarters of the Old Testament, and one and a
half times of the New.
May God bless your continued effort and dedication.

Bible Readings for today.
2 Kings 24-25
Ezekiel 13
Luke 9

For those who want to go directly to the source of this study guide,
it can be found at http://www.antipas.org/readings/readings.html

It takes normally between 20-30 mins per day depending on one's reading
speed.
It will be found many unanswered questions which may have seemed puzzling
and "Hard to be understood" are slowly and precisely answered as the Bible
is methodically read through day after day.

Here is a helpful link for anyone who either does not have a Bible to
hand, or might prefer reading from their computer, or might want to compare
different translations, or even read non-English versions:
http://www.biblegateway.com/

And for those who wish to listen to the Bible while doing their chores.
http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html

Comments and suggestions are welcome.
Jeff Hickling.
1 Cor. 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things,
and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."

Posted In: alt.religion.biblestudy

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]]> Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:58:13 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/yippi_bible_readings_today_16_9_008_just_another_14_132076548t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/yippi_bible_readings_today_16_9_008_just_another_14_132076548t.html Daily Readings for the last eight months. For by the end of this month they
will have read almost three-quarters of the Old Testament, and one and a
half times of the New.
May God bless your continued effort and dedication.

Bible Readings for today.
2 Kings 22-23
Ezekiel 12
Luke 8

For those who want to go directly to the source of this study guide,
it can be found at http://www.antipas.org/readings/readings.html

It takes normally between 20-30 mins per day depending on one's reading
speed.
It will be found many unanswered questions which may have seemed puzzling
and "Hard to be understood" are slowly and precisely answered as the Bible
is methodically read through day after day.

Here is a helpful link for anyone who either does not have a Bible to
hand, or might prefer reading from their computer, or might want to compare
different translations, or even read non-English versions:
http://www.biblegateway.com/

And for those who wish to listen to the Bible while doing their chores.
http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html

Comments and suggestions are welcome.
Jeff Hickling.
1 Cor. 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things,
and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."

Posted In: alt.religion.biblestudy

no comments

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]]> Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:35:38 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/jesus_christ_quite_human_while_quite_divine_john_1_132043012t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/jesus_christ_quite_human_while_quite_divine_john_1_132043012t.html

Posted In: alt.religion.biblestudy

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]]> Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:23:12 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/yippi_bible_readings_today_15_9_008_just_another_14_132009988t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/yippi_bible_readings_today_15_9_008_just_another_14_132009988t.html Daily Readings for the last eight months. For by the end of this month they
will have read almost three-quarters of the Old Testament, and one and a
half times of the New.
May God bless your continued effort and dedication.

Bible Readings for today.
2 Kings 21
Ezekiel 11
Luke 7

For those who want to go directly to the source of this study guide,
it can be found at http://www.antipas.org/readings/readings.html

It takes normally between 20-30 mins per day depending on one's reading
speed.
It will be found many unanswered questions which may have seemed puzzling
and "Hard to be understood" are slowly and precisely answered as the Bible
is methodically read through day after day.

Here is a helpful link for anyone who either does not have a Bible to
hand, or might prefer reading from their computer, or might want to compare
different translations, or even read non-English versions:
http://www.biblegateway.com/

And for those who wish to listen to the Bible while doing their chores.
http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html

Comments and suggestions are welcome.
Jeff Hickling.
1 Cor. 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things,
and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."

Posted In: alt.religion.biblestudy

no comments

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]]> Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:49:04 PDT http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/final_death_count_cold_hearted_bastard_christian_god_132007428t.html http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.biblestudy/final_death_count_cold_hearted_bastard_christian_god_132007428t.html think you've seen death and destriction with the hurricanes god creates, or
with the tsunamis he creates, you ain't seen nothing yet.

just wait until the rapture, when the COLD-HEARTED BASTARD christian god
will be MURDERING nearly everyone who doesn't worship his sorry ass

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]]> Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:00:14 PDT