In message
4ax.com>
old man joe home.com> wrote:
>
> the Universalists, in their belief system, claim Christ died for
> everyone.
Paul is the one who said Christ died for all.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that
if one died for all, then were all dead:
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth
live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose
again.
>
> if this was the case, the writer of Hebrews, also speaking
> under
> the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit just as John the
> Baptist,
> made a mistake.
Or, perhaps old man joe fails to understand whatever scripture he is
referring to.
But the NT is consistent, Christ died to take away the sins of all
humanity.
Romans 5:6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for
the ungodly.
> and there would be a serious conflict of doctrine
> recorded in Holy Scripture for all to see.
>
> wonderfully, this is not the case at all.
>
> in the writings of the Apostle John, he uses the word ' world '
> no
> less than 7 different ways... much the same way we use the word
> ' world ' today. some of these usages are noted in this post...
> this post is not intended to be exhaustive to John's usage of the
> word
> " world. "
>
> it should be noted that the Holy Scriptures record that there
> are
> but two distinctions of peoples filling the world since time began
> as far as God is concerned...
> those who are saved and those who are not saved. this becomes
> abundantly evident when we read " in Adam all die, so also in
> Christ all shall be made alive." 1 Cor. 15:22
There is nothing in 1 Cor. 15:22 that supports old man joe's view.
In fact, it clearly says the opposite of what he is claiming. Just
as everyone, without exception, is mortal and so dies, everyone,
without exception, is to be made alive.
>
> it would be entirely in keeping with this statement to put it
> into a
> paraphrased and say this verse means...' some of the people of our
> world are in Adam and some are in Christ. ' we could also say....
> ' there are men out of every tribe and nation but not all tribes
> and nations as a whole who are in Adam, while there are men out of
> every tribe and nation but not all tribes and nations as a whole
> who are in Christ.
>
> these two distinctions of people, these two ' worlds ' of people
> co-exist in our world and have been since time began according to
> Holy Scripture..
>
> in the writings of the Apostle John, the word ' world '
> translates
> from the Greek word ' cosmos. ' the word ' cosmos ' is behind all
> 7 usages translated ' world ' in John's writings, and each has a
> different meaning although it's the same word ' cosmos... world '
>
> for example, when John says " We know that we are of God, and
> the
> whole world lies in [the power of] the evil one, " 1 Jn. 5:19 it
> is not a statement including the redeemed ones belonging to God
> who are
> in the sexual embrace of the evil one... Col. 1:13. this usage of
> the word cosmos, world, here means all those dead in trespasses
> and sins are in the sexual embrace of the evil one... " in Adam,
> all die "
>
> put another way, it means ' men out of every tribe and nation
> but
> not all tribes and nations as a whole. '
>
> another example : when John records the Pharisees as saying
> " Behold, the world has gone after Him, " Jn. 12:19, John is not
> saying every person on the face of the earth was following Jesus
> on that occasion... the speakers themselves refused to do so.
> cosmos, world here simply means a great crowd, a large number of
> people were following Jesus on that occasion.
>
> in Jn.1:10 the word cosmos, world appears 3 times. Jesus was in
> our
> realm... the world... the world or orderly universe was made
> through
> Him, and the cosmos " world did not know Him. " here the word
> cosmos translated ' world ' can only refer to the sons of darkness
> since the
> purpose of salvation is to know God intimately. Jn 17:3. the
> gospels are replete with examples of those given the faith unto
> salvation knowing Jesus was the Messiah because these were of the
> cosmos world of the elect... that is... " men out of every tribe
> and nation but not
> all tribes and nations as a whole. " Mt. 9:27; Mt. 15:22. those
> of Adam's world do not know Him while those of kingdom of God do
> know Him.
>
> in sharp contrast to the text, " the world did not know Him, "
> in
> Jn. 17: 6 Jesus identifies 2 kinds of ' worlds ' when He says :
> " I manifested Thy name to the men whom Thou gavest Me out of
> the
> world... " out of the world of the unbelievers; out of the world
> of
> Adam, in whom all are spiritually dead... " in Adam, all die. "
> the cosmos world the elect are taken out of and put into is the
> kingdom of God as v.9 of Jn. 17 demonstrates by another usage of
> the same word cosmos, world.
>
> " I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world,
> but of
> those whom Thou hast given Me; for they are Thine... "
>
> so here we have a cosmos world meaning ' men out of every tribe
> and
> nation but not all tribes and nations as a whole... one world
> belongs to Adam, in whom all die, while the other world is in
> Christ...remembering that Christ bore the sins of " many " but not
> the sins of "all. "... " so also in Christ all shall be made
> alive." 1 Cor. 15:22
>
> as the elect ones read the Holy Scriptures and study's the Holy
> Spirits usage of words such as " world, whole world, all, many,
> few, everyone, whoever, whosoever, we, us, and so on, " it becomes
> clear that there is no conflict between such verses given as
> examples in the
> subject of this post.... because it is not possible to squeeze
> all mankind into the atonement of Christ when the Bible clearly
> says... when the Holy Spirit says... " Christ also, having been
> offered once to bear the sins of many...
>
> " Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is
> broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by
> it. For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to
> life, and
> few are those who find it. " Mt. 7:13,14... a distinction is
> spoken by Jesus of the only two types of people there are... the
> saved and the lost; those in Adam and those in Christ; men out of
> every tribe and nation but not all tribes and nations as a whole
> are the " few " on the road which leads to life.
>
> in Jn. 3:16, the most abused verse of the Universalists, the
> only
> meaning of the word cosmos world which could possibly fit the
> context is...
> " men out of every tribe and nation but not all tribes and nations
> of
> mankind as a whole "... it is only the cosmos world of God's
> elect ones who believe in Jesus Christ and are saved by Him as
> this and the very next verse indicates. v.17
>
> one is first given eternal life, then he believes. Acts 13:48
>
> another example of Johns usage of the word cosmos to mean men
> out of
> every tribe and nation but not all tribes and nations as a whole,
> is in 1 Jn. 2:2 " He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and
> not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world. "
This scripture is a tough one for old man joe, as John's reference
to "the whole world" clearly includes everyone, and can't possibly
refer to only those who believe, as old man joe's theology of
limited atonement requires. Yet amazingly, old man joe is so
arrogant, and his mind so corrupted by his Calvinist theology, he
tries to argue that this scripture means the very opposite of what
it says!
>
> to conclude that Christ died for everyone of all tribes and
> nations
> as a whole from this verse begs the questions; " why then isn't
> " the whole world " saved " ? " didn't He carry the sin of
> unbelief
> to the cross as well, " ? " did Jesus fail at Calvary " ?
> shouldn't we then be looking for the real Savior " ?
>
> the only possible meaning of the word cosmos world in this verse
> is : " men out of every tribe and nation but not all tribes and
> nations as a whole. "
But that makes no sense at all. Why would John say Christ is the
propitiation for our sins, but "not for ours only"? Who else? Why,
the only thing that makes any sense is that Christ died for the
rest of mankind too. That is, he died for those who have never
heard the gospel, as well as those who have heard it preached. He
died for unbelievers as well as those who believe.
> Jesus Christ Eternal Son of God did not
> fail at Calvary... He paid for the sin of unbelief and for all of
> the sins for men out of every tribe and nation but not for men out
> of all tribes and nations as a whole...
That is old man joe's "other gospel," not what scripture says. He
deceives himself! And he embraces another spirit, not the spirit of
Christ! Scripture says Christ died for all, and is the saviour of
all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust
in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of
those that believe.
> we need not look for
> another to save.
>
> it is one of the traits of Satan to pervert the Holy Scriptures.
> his first recorded statement to man was...
> " Indeed, hath God said..." ?
>
> likewise, charmed by the allurement of self gratification
> through
> the perversion of Holy Scripture, the Universalists concocted a
> Savior who does not exist... making all those in Adam think that
> through the lie of Universal Atonement all one has to do is
> co-redeem himself by his free will... though he doesn't have a
> will that is free... 2 Tim. 2:26
>
> the Hyper-Universalist claim everyone is saved automatically by
> the
> death of Christ... " indeed, hath God said " ?
Salvation is a gift, and faith is a gift.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Salvation depends entirely on God, who according to Paul wants all
men to be saved:
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of
the truth.
The world has been reconciled by the death of Christ; we simply need
to believe it!
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by
Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us
the word of reconciliation.
