On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 05:18:11 -0400,
in article
4ax.com>,
old man joe home.com> wrote:
>
> the Universalists, in their belief system, claim Christ died for
>everyone.
>
> if this was the case, the writer of Hebrews, also speaking under
>the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit just as John the Baptist,
>made a mistake. and there would be a serious conflict of doctrine
>recorded in Holy Scripture for all to see.
>
> wonderfully, this is not the case at all.
>
> in the writings of the Apostle John, he uses the word ' world ' no
>less than 7 different ways... much the same way we use the word
>' world ' today. some of these usages are noted in this post... this
>post is not intended to be exhaustive to John's usage of the word
> " world. "
>
> it should be noted that the Holy Scriptures record that there are
>but two distinctions of peoples filling the world since time began as
>far as God is concerned...
>those who are saved and those who are not saved. this becomes
>abundantly evident when we read " in Adam all die, so also in Christ
>all shall be made alive." 1 Cor. 15:22
>
> it would be entirely in keeping with this statement to put it into a
>paraphrased and say this verse means...' some of the people of our
>world are in Adam and some are in Christ. ' we could also say.... '
>there are men out of every tribe and nation but not all tribes and
>nations as a whole who are in Adam, while there are men out of every
>tribe and nation but not all tribes and nations as a whole who are in
>Christ.
>
> these two distinctions of people, these two ' worlds ' of people
>co-exist in our world and have been since time began according to Holy
>Scripture..
>
> in the writings of the Apostle John, the word ' world ' translates
>from the Greek word ' cosmos. ' the word ' cosmos ' is behind all
>7 usages translated ' world ' in John's writings, and each has a
>different meaning although it's the same word ' cosmos... world '
>
> for example, when John says " We know that we are of God, and the
>whole world lies in [the power of] the evil one, " 1 Jn. 5:19 it is
>not a statement including the redeemed ones belonging to God who are
>in the sexual embrace of the evil one... Col. 1:13. this usage of the
>word cosmos, world, here means all those dead in trespasses and sins
>are in the sexual embrace of the evil one... " in Adam, all die "
>
> put another way, it means ' men out of every tribe and nation but
>not all tribes and nations as a whole. '
>
> another example : when John records the Pharisees as saying
> " Behold, the world has gone after Him, " Jn. 12:19, John is not
>saying every person on the face of the earth was following Jesus on
>that occasion... the speakers themselves refused to do so. cosmos,
>world here simply means a great crowd, a large number of people were
>following Jesus on that occasion.
>
> in Jn.1:10 the word cosmos, world appears 3 times. Jesus was in our
>realm... the world... the world or orderly universe was made through
>Him, and the cosmos " world did not know Him. " here the word cosmos
>translated ' world ' can only refer to the sons of darkness since the
>purpose of salvation is to know God intimately. Jn 17:3. the gospels
>are replete with examples of those given the faith unto salvation
>knowing Jesus was the Messiah because these were of the cosmos world
>of the elect... that is... " men out of every tribe and nation but not
>all tribes and nations as a whole. " Mt. 9:27; Mt. 15:22. those of
>Adam's world do not know Him while those of kingdom of God do know
>Him.
>
> in sharp contrast to the text, " the world did not know Him, " in
>Jn. 17: 6 Jesus identifies 2 kinds of ' worlds ' when He says :
> " I manifested Thy name to the men whom Thou gavest Me out of the
>world... " out of the world of the unbelievers; out of the world of
>Adam, in whom all are spiritually dead... " in Adam, all die. " the
>cosmos world the elect are taken out of and put into is the kingdom of
>God as v.9 of Jn. 17 demonstrates by another usage of the same word
>cosmos, world.
>
> " I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of
>those whom Thou hast given Me; for they are Thine... "
>
> so here we have a cosmos world meaning ' men out of every tribe and
>nation but not all tribes and nations as a whole... one world belongs
>to Adam, in whom all die, while the other world is in
>Christ...remembering that Christ bore the sins of " many " but not the
>sins of "all. "... " so also in Christ all shall be made alive."
>1 Cor. 15:22
>
> as the elect ones read the Holy Scriptures and study's the Holy
>Spirits usage of words such as " world, whole world, all, many, few,
>everyone, whoever, whosoever, we, us, and so on, " it becomes clear
>that there is no conflict between such verses given as examples in the
>subject of this post.... because it is not possible to squeeze all
>mankind into the atonement of Christ when the Bible clearly says...
>when the Holy Spirit says... " Christ also, having been offered once
>to bear the sins of many...
>
> " Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is
>broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it.
>For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and
>few are those who find it. " Mt. 7:13,14... a distinction is spoken
>by Jesus of the only two types of people there are... the saved and
>the lost; those in Adam and those in Christ; men out of every tribe
>and nation but not all tribes and nations as a whole are the " few "
>on the road which leads to life.
>
> in Jn. 3:16, the most abused verse of the Universalists, the only
>meaning of the word cosmos world which could possibly fit the context
>is...
>" men out of every tribe and nation but not all tribes and nations of
>mankind as a whole "... it is only the cosmos world of God's elect
>ones who believe in Jesus Christ and are saved by Him as this and the
>very next verse indicates. v.17
>
> one is first given eternal life, then he believes. Acts 13:48
>
> another example of Johns usage of the word cosmos to mean men out of
>every tribe and nation but not all tribes and nations as a whole, is
>in 1 Jn. 2:2 " He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not
>for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world. "
>
> to conclude that Christ died for everyone of all tribes and nations
>as a whole from this verse begs the questions; " why then isn't
>" the whole world " saved " ? " didn't He carry the sin of unbelief
>to the cross as well, " ? " did Jesus fail at Calvary " ?
>shouldn't we then be looking for the real Savior " ?
>
> the only possible meaning of the word cosmos world in this verse
> is : " men out of every tribe and nation but not all tribes and
>nations as a whole. " Jesus Christ Eternal Son of God did not fail at
>Calvary... He paid for the sin of unbelief and for all of the sins for
>men out of every tribe and nation but not for men out of all tribes
>and nations as a whole... we need not look for another to save.
>
> it is one of the traits of Satan to pervert the Holy Scriptures.
>his first recorded statement to man was...
>" Indeed, hath God said..." ?
>
> likewise, charmed by the allurement of self gratification through
>the perversion of Holy Scripture, the Universalists concocted a Savior
>who does not exist... making all those in Adam think that through the
>lie of Universal Atonement all one has to do is co-redeem himself by
>his free will... though he doesn't have a will that is free... 2 Tim.
>2:26
>
> the Hyper-Universalist claim everyone is saved automatically by the
>death of Christ... " indeed, hath God said " ?
>
>
First, I agree God is sovereign in electing sinners to
salvation. Romans 9 makes it clear that only the elect will
be saved, not everyone, and that this is done according to
God's sovereign purposes in election. Universal atonement,
however, does not necessitate universal salvation. The
limited atonement theory is a lie from faulty logic, not
exegesis.
Unfortunately, your understanding of "world" doesn't seem to
take John 12 into consideration:
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him
not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one
that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall
judge him in the last day.
Here, Christ says the world He came to save, includes those
who reject Him and His words. Christ will not judge these
people, because He came to save them. The word He spoke to
them, however, will judge them, because they rejected the
offer of salvation. Thus, the world Christ came to save, and
to whom He offered salvation, includes those who ultimately
reject Him.
You can't be guilty of rejecting Christ and His words of
salvation, if He was not offering you salvation, and He
couldn't offer you salvation, if He were not an atonement for
your sins. The world Christ came to save includes those who
reject Him and His words of salvation.
The Bible makes clear, in no uncertain terms, that Christ died
for all men, tasted death for every man, is the Savior of all
men, specially them that believe, is the propitiation not only
for our own sins, but also for the sins of the whole world,
and even bought the false teachers who deny Him as Lord.
Further, John 12 clearly identifies the "world" Christ came to
save as including those who ultimately reject Him. That's why
they are judged not by Christ, but by the gospel He brought
them.
The objection that if Christ died for all men, then all men
must be saved, is based on erroneous logic, not exegesis. Fact
is, the blood must be applied to the doorpost, before it
became effective, and the angel of death passed over, even
among those who were elect. Faith is the method by which God
puts the benefits of atonement to an individual's account, and
God only gives faith to the elect. The lost, therefore,
perish not because no atonement was made for them, but because
the blood was never applied to the doorposts of their souls
through faith.
You cannot place a limit on the value of Christ's death. As
God, He is infinite, and as man, He died. Death is the
penalty, and Christ died. Therefore, the penalty for sin has
been paid. The idea that you could fix a finite limit on the
value of Christ's death is ridiculous, and implies that sin
itself, and God Himself, is finite.
Further, the limited atonement theory may actually be a false,
damnable heresy. Fact is, we are saved by faith in Christ's
atonement, not faith in election. You cannot have objective
faith in Christ's death as a payment for your sin, if you
believe His death only paid the price for the elect.
Otherwise, you are no longer trusting in the gospel that
Christ died for your sins, and that God raised Him from the
dead, but trusting in the idea that somehow you were one of
the elect.
Paul didn't say Christ died for the elect, of whom He was
chief, but for sinners. All men are sinners, and Christ died
for all men. The benefits of this atonement, however, are
only applied to the souls of those who are elect. Thus the
universal atonement of Christ does not necessitate universal
salvation.
--
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself
up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ. †2 Corinthians 10:5
