On May 16, 12:46Â pm, Day Brown
hughes.net> wrote:> Fran wrote:
>>> But if the playing field is leveled, and ethanol or gasoline are used as
>>> fuels in motors which are optimized for their uses, then the gasoline
>>> will produce better mileage per gallon simply because ethanol has less
>>> BTU's per gallon in it.
>
>> That's not what the studies show.
>
> The BTU rating of alcohol is lower; but the conversion of alcohol into
> butanol with microbes is feasible, and results in a fuel you can run a
> gas engine on, get the same mileage, and not modify at all.
>
>>>> Well yes, because US sugar is too expensive, because its protected.
>>> Yet you argued that ethanol was produced from sugar cane. Â It can be -
>>> but it isn't done here in the US. Â Get your story straight.
>
> The US does grow Sorghum, which can easily be fermented to produce
> alcohol. Sorghum is more drought tolerant, dont need as much chemical
> fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, and can produce 100-120 gallons of
> ethanol/acre on just 3.5 gallons of tractor fuel.
>
>>> Talk to yourself much, Fran? Â Just as an aside, small children need good
>>> sources of protein. Â It is difficult, although not impossible, to
>>> achieve adequate growth, both in mentation and stature using a vegan
>>> only diet. Â
>
>> It's not difficult. Both my children (now 24, 15) are in robust good
>> health on such a diet.
>
> Studies show that trace minerals are essential for maxmimal mental
> development. They have all been leached out of agribusiness soils. You
> need to grow food in organic soils.
Ideally, yes, or at the very least ensure that food meeds certain
nutritional standards before it leaves the farm gate.
>> For the lower classes a vegan diet becomes a
>>> multi-generational disaster.
>
>> What nonsense. Look at first world kids and adults these days. Obesity
>> is rampant.
>
> Some of the trace minerals and micronutrients plants absorb from organic
> soils empower some of the 150 or so neurotransmitters in the limbic
> system to recognize when enuf food has been consumed. Agribusiness food
> dont have them, which drives up food consumption, which is good for profits.
>
Which nutrients are they? It's true that zinc deficiency will trigger,
*inter alia* a loss of sense of taste or smell, but I hadn't heard
this story.
>>> And these upscale stores will NOT locate themselves in the high crime
>>> areas, let alone in lower middle-class suburbs.
>
>>> Great thought, but it's for the elite.
>
> There is a move to convert empty urban lots in poor neighborhoods
> into organic gardens to solve the problem.
>
For true organics, there will be substantial a lead time to remediate
the soil.
>> Wrong. Livestock are very energy, water- and land- -intensive.
>
> Depends on where. Livestock can be raised on land that is too marginal
> for profitable crop production.
Got a cite on that? What livestock and what land are you considering?
Don't forget to compare inputs and land with protein output. Crops
like rye and even potatoes for example can be grown on quite marginal
soil. Of course, there would be an argument for not using the soil at
all, if it's marginal, and allowing it to return to its natural
state.
>> Oh I agree. Butanol from waste biomass, algae etc . would be better.
>
> That works on ethanol also, as noted above.
True.
Fran
