Re: Whom are you rooting for in the Iraq War?
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Re: Whom are you rooting for in the Iraq War?         

Group: alt.politics.uk · Group Profile
Author: Raymond
Date: Oct 1, 2007 03:20

On Oct 1, 5:17 am, Roedy Green mindprod.com.invalid>
wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 07:19:24 GMT, Roedy Green
> mindprod.com.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
> someone who said :
>
>
>
>
>
>>In the Iraq war, I side with Iraqi resistance. My reasons are:
>
>>1. the USA attacked unprovoked, illegal by international law.
>
>>2. the USA used banned weapons, such as napalm, white phosphorus,
>>cluster bombs and land mines.
>
>>3. America has attacked primarily civilians and children with their
>>"cowardly" aerial attacks and attacks from armoured vehicles. This is
>>similar to what Germany did in the Spanish civil war or what Italy did
>>to the Ethiopians.
>
>>4. America told endless lies to justify the war.
>>5. The words riches nation is picking on an impoverished third world
>>nation, to steal all her assets, mainly oil, and drought resistant
>>seeds.
>>6. Americans have ROUTINELY used torture on POWs.
>
>>7. Americans have shut down most constitutional civil liberties.
>
>>8. Americans revel in their brutality -- "shock and awe". They are
>>proud of it. They are of the same mould as ancient Romans.
>
> Am I pro Saddam? no. The war was never about Saddam. That was just a
> way to sell the war to the naive and idealistic left.
>
> But recall Saddam offered to surrender without a fight. Bush turned
> him down. Further Saddam was captured on 2003-12-13, 3 years, 9
> months and 19 days ago. The war continued unabated, proving whatever
> was fueling the war was not a desire to free Iraqis from a dictator.
>
> What has continued to fuel the war is the American inability to
> "liberate" Iraqis from their oil since they can blow up the pipelines
> so inexpensively.
>
> If find it so amusing the Americans chose the bald eagle as their
> national bird, creature that earns its living my stealing.
> --
> Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
> The Java Glossaryhttp://mindprod.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

"It is part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our
country is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an
artificually induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an
incessant propaganda of fear."
-General Douglas MacArthur, Speech, May 15, 1951

Q. Why did we go to war in Iraq? Why did America create this mess?
A. Iraqi oil for Israel and billions of dollars for the independant
contractor friends of **President Bush and his auxiliary---Dick Cheney

**( Cocaine users have an increased chance of developing psychosis
later in life than those who never use the drug, according to a new
report.)

"The lowest standards of ethics of which a right-thinking man can
possibly conceive is taught to the common soldier whose trade is to
shoot his fellow men. In youth he may have learned the command, 'Thou
shalt not kill,' but the ruler takes the boy just as he enters manhood
and teaches him that his highest duty is to shoot a bullet through his
neighbor's heart - and this, unmoved by passion or feeling or hatred,
and without the least regard to right or wrong, but simply because his
ruler gives the word."

-Clarence Darrow, Resist Not Evil

Shalom:

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz (8/25/03) published a report confirming
that the war in Iraq was very much about oil. The U.S. Defense
Department sent a telegram to the Israeli Foreign Ministry on the
possibility of pumping oil from U.S.-occupied Iraq to Israel, A
"senior Pentagon official" has sent a telegram to a "top Foreign
Ministry official" on the cost estimate for repairing the Mosul-Haifa
pipeline that was in use prior to 1948. Americans are looking into
the
possibility of laying a new pipeline via Jordan and Israel." The new
pipeline would take oil from the oil-rich Iraqi northern area of
Kirkuk, where some 40 percent of Iraqi oil is produced, transport it
via Mosul to Jordan and then to Israel. After the end of the British
mandate, the 1948 war and the creation of Israel, Iraq stopped the
flow of oil to Haifa and the pipeline, only 8 inches in diameter,
fell
into disrepair since then.

A recent research by the Israeli National Infrastructure Ministry put
the construction of a 42-inch diameter pipeline between Kirkuk and
Haifa at some 400,000 dollars per kilometer. Israeli National
Infrastructure Minister Yosef Paritzky vowed to discuss the issue
with
the U.S. secretary of energy during his envisaged visit to Washington
He asserted that the whole project depends on Jordan's consent,
adding
that the kingdom would receive a transit fee for allowing the oil to
flow through its territory. Paritzky believes restarting the pipeline
could reduce Israel's fuel costs by 25 percent and turn Haifa into
"the Rotterdam of the Middle East." Israeli Premier Ariel Sharon's
government "views the pipeline to Haifa as a 'bonus' the U.S. could
give to Israel in return for its unequivocal support for the
American-
led campaign in Iraq,"

Turkey is angry. At present, Iraqi oil is being shipped via Turkey to
a small Mediterranean port near the Syrian border. Ankara, which
considers the transit fee it collects an important source of revenue,
has warned Israel it would regard the talked-about Kirkuk-Mosul-Haifa
pipeline as "a serious blow to Turkish-Israeli relations." Haaretz
quoted sources as saying reports about the alternative pipeline are
part of an American "attempt to apply pressure on Turkey" which had
opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and is still reluctant to
commit
troops to the neighboring country to ease the burden on American
forces.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/mou1975.html

It is all about Israel's need for Oil
Azoy gait es! - That's how it goes!
http://www.giwersworld.org/911/oil/israel-oil.phtml

Kirkuk to Haifa Pipeline: Reason for the War?
A metsieh far a ganef - It's a steal (Lit., A bargain for a thief.)

US discusses plan to pump fuel to its regional ally and solve energy
headache at a stroke Ed Vuillamy in Washington Sunday April 20, 2003
The Observer

Plans to build a pipeline to siphon oil from newly conquered Iraq to
Israel are being discussed between Washington, Tel Aviv and potential
future government figures in Baghdad.The plan envisages the
reconstruction of an old pipeline, inactive since the end of the
British mandate in Palestine in 1948, when the flow from Iraq's
northern oilfields to Palestine was re-directed to Syria.

By Steven Scheer

LONDON (Reuters) - Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (news
-
web sites) said he expected an oil pipeline from Iraq (news - web
sites) to Israel to be reopened in the near future after being closed
when Israel became a state in 1948.

"It won't be long when you will see Iraqi oil flowing to Haifa," the
port city in northern Israel, Netanyahu told a group of British
investors, declining to give a timetable.

"It is just a matter of time until the pipeline is reconstituted and
Iraqi oil will flow to the Mediterranean."

Netanyahu later told Reuters the government was in the early stages
of
looking into the possibility of reopening the pipeline, which during
the British Mandate sent oil from Mosul to Haifa via Jordan.

"It's not a pipe-dream," Netanyahu said.

http://zionofascism.wordpress.com/category/netanyahu-watch/

Read also Israel-United States Memorandum of Understanding
(September 1, 1975) Oil for Israel

Israel-United States Memorandum of Understanding
(September 1, 1975)

On the day the interim agreement was signed, Israel and the U.S.
signed three other documents relating to the Sinai agreement. The
first dealt With U.S. aid to Israel and future diplomatic moves in the
Middle East; the second was entitled "Assurances from the United
States Government to Israel" and dealt with issues of arms. The third
dealt with the reconvening of the Geneva, Conference. There was also a
set of American assurances to Egypt. The U.S.-Israel agreements were
not published officially but were revealed by the New York Times and
the Washington Post. Later they were entered into the Congressional
Record. Texts:

Memorandum

If the oil Israel needs to meet all its normal requirements for
domestic consumption is unavailable for purchase, the United States is
obligated to procure, for them, oil to meet Israel's normal
requirements. The United States agrees

Source: Israeli Foreign Ministry

The United States recognizes that the Egypt-Israel Agreement initialed
on Sept. 1, 1975 (hereinafter referred to as the agreement), entailing
the withdrawal from vital areas in Sinai, constitutes an act of great
significance on Israel's part in the pursuit of final peace. That
agreement has full United States support.

1. The United States Government will make every effort to be fully
responsive, within the limits of its resources and Congressional
authorization and appropriation, on an ongoing and long-term basis, to
Israel's military equipment and other defense requirements, to its
energy requirements and to its economic needs. The needs specified in
paragraphs 2, 3 and 4 below shall be deemed eligible for inclusion
within the annual total to be requested in fiscal year '76 and later
fiscal years.

2. Israel's long-term military supply needs from the United States
shall be the subject of periodic consultations between representatives
of the U.S. and Israeli defense establishments, with agreement reached
on specific items to be included in a separate U.S.-Israeli
memorandum. To this end, a joint study by military experts will be
undertaken within three weeks. In conducting this study, which will
include Israel's 1976 needs, the United States will view Israel's
requests sympathetically, including its request for advanced and
sophisticated weapons.

3. Israel will make its own independent arrangements for oil supply to
meet its requirements through normal procedures. In the event Israel
is unable to secure its needs in this way, the United States
Government, upon notification of this fact by the Government, of
Israel, will act as follows for five years, at the end of which period
either side can terminate this arrangement on one year's notice.

(a) If the oil Israel needs to meet all its normal requirements for
domestic consumption is unavailable for purchase in circumstances
where no quantitative restrictions exist on the ability of the United
States to procure oil to meet its normal requirements, the United
States Government will promptly make oil available for purchase by
Israel to meet all of the aforementioned normal requirements of
Israel. If Israel is unable to secure the necessary means to transport
such oil to Israel, the United States Government will make every
effort to help Israel secure the necessary means of transport.

(b) If the oil Israel needs to meet all of its normal requirements for
domestic consumption is unavailable for purchase in circumstances
where' quantitative restrictions through embargo or otherwise also
prevent the United States from procuring oil to meet its normal
requirements, the United States Government will promptly make oil
available for purchase by Israel in accordance with the International
Energy Agency conservation and allocation formula as applied by the
United States Government, in order to meet Israel's essential
requirements. If Israel is unable to secure the necessary means to
transport such oil to Israel, the United States Government will make
every effort to help Israel secure the necessary means of transport.

Israeli and U.S. experts will meet annually or more frequently at the
request of either party, to review Israel's continuing oil
requirement.

4. In order to help Israel meet its energy needs and as part of the
over-all annual figure in paragraph 1 above, the United States agrees:

(a) In determining the over-all annual figure which will be requested
from Congress, the United States Government will give special
attention to Israel's oil import requirements and, for a period as
determined by Article 3 above, will take into account in calculating
that figure Israel's additional expenditures for the import of oil to
replace that which would have ordinarily come from Abu Rudeis and Ras
Sudar (4.5 million tons in 1975).

(b) To ask Congress to make available funds, the amount to be
determined by mutual agreement, to the Government of Israel necessary
for a project for the construction and stocking of the oil reserves to
be stored in Israel, bringing storage reserve capacity and reserve
stocks, now standing at approximately six months, up to one year's
need at the time of the completion of the project. The project will be
implemented within four years. The construction, operation and
financing and other relevant questions of the project will be the
subject of early and detailed talks between the two Governments.

5. The United States Government will not expect Israel to begin to
implement the agreement before Egypt fulfills its undertaking under
the January 1974, disengagement agreement to permit passage of all
Israeli cargoes to and from Israeli Ports through the Suez Canal.

6. The United States Government agrees with Israel that the next
agreement with Egypt should be a final peace agreement.

7. In case of an Egyptian violation of any of the provisions of the
agreement, the United States Government is prepared to consult with
Israel as to the significance of the violation and possible remedial
action by the United States Government.

8. The United States Government will vote against any Security Council
resolution which in its judgement affects or alters adversely the
agreement.

9. The United States Government will not join in and will seek to
prevent efforts by others to bring about consideration of proposals
which it and Israel agree are detrimental to the interest of Israel.

10. In view of the long-standing U.S. commitment to the survival and
security of Israel, the United States Government will view with
particular gravity threats to Israel's security or sovereignty by a
world power. In support of this objective, the United States
Government will in the event of such threat consult promptly with the
Government of Israel with respect to what support diplomatic or
otherwise, of assistance it can lend to Israel in accordance with its
constitutional practices.

11. The United States Government and the Government of Israel will, at
the earliest possible time, and if possible within two months after
the signature of this document, conclude the contingency plan for a
military supply operation to Israel in an emergency situation.

12. It is the United States Government's position that Egyptian
commitments under the Egypt-Israel agreement, its implementation,
validity and duration are not conditional upon any act or developments
between the other Arab states and Israel. The United States Government
regards the agreement as standing on its own.

13. The United States Government shares the Israeli position that
under existing political circumstances negotiations with Jordan will
be directed toward an over-all peace settlement.

14. In accordance with the principle of freedom of navigation on the
high seas and free and unimpeded passage through and over straits
connecting international waters, the United States Government regards
the Straits of Bab el Mandeb and the Strait of Gibraltar as
international waterways. It will support Israel's right to free and
unimpeded passage through such straits. Similarly, the United States
Government recognizes Israel's right to freedom of flights over the
Red Sea and such straits and will support diplomatically the exercise
of that right.

15. In the event that the United Nations Emergency Force or any other
United Nations organ is withdrawn without the prior agreement of both
parties to the Egypt-Israel agreement and the United States before
this agreement is superseded by another agreement, it is the United
States view that the agreement shall remain binding in all its parts.

16. The United States and Israel agree that signature of the protocol
of the Egypt-Israel agreement and its full entry into effect shall not
take place before approval by the United States Congress of the U.S.
role in connection with the surveillance and observation functions
described in the agreement and its annex. The United States has
informed the Government of Israel that it has obtained the Government
of Egypt agreement to the above.

Addendum on Arms

On the question of military and economic assistance to Israel, the
following conveyed by the U.S. to Israel augments what the memorandum
of agreement states.

The United States is resolved to continue to maintain Israel's
defensive strength through the supply of advanced types of equipment,
such as the F-16 aircraft. The United States Government agrees to an
early meeting to undertake a joint study of high technology and
sophisticated items, including the Pershing ground-to-ground missiles
with conventional warheads, with the view to giving a positive
response. The U.S. Administration will submit annually for approval by
the U.S. Congress a request for military and economic assistance in
order to help meet Israel's economic and military needs.

Assurances to Egypt

1. The United States intends to make a serious effort to help bring
about further negotiations between Syria and Israel, in the first
instance through diplomatic channels.

2. In the event of an Israeli violation of the agreement, the United
States is prepared to consult with Egypt as to the significance of the
violation and possible remedial action by the United States will
provide technical assistance to Egypt for the Egyptian early-warning
station.

Accord on Geneva

1. The Geneva peace conference will be reconvened at a time
coordinated between the United States and Israel.

2. The United States will continue to adhere to its present policy
with respect to the Palestine Liberation Organization, whereby it will
not recognize or negotiate with the Palestine Liberation Organization
so long as the Palestine Liberation Organization does not recognize
Israel's right to exist and does not accept Security Council
Resolutions 242 and 338. The United States Government will consult
fully and seek to concert its position and strategy at the Geneva
peace conference on this issue with the Government of Israel.
Similarly, the United States will consult fully and seek to concert
its position and strategy with Israel with regard to the participation
of any other additional states. It is understood that the
participation at a subsequent phase of the conference of any possible
additional state, group or organization will require the agreement of
all the initial participants.

3. The-United States will make every effort to insure at the
conference that all the substantive negotiations will be on a
bilateral basis.

4. The United States will oppose and, if necessary, vote against any
initiative in the Security Council to alter adversely the terms of
reference of the Geneva peace conference or to change Resolutions 242
and 338 in ways which are incompatible with their original purpose.

5. The United States will seek to insure that the role of the co-
sponsors will be consistent with what was agreed in the memorandum of
understanding between the United States Government and the Government
of Israel of Dec. 20, 1973.

6. The United States and Israel will concert action to assure that the
conference will be conducted in a manner consonant with the objectives
of this document and with the declared purpose of the conference,
namely the advancement of a negotiated peace between Israel and its
neighbors.
-------------------
"It seems that 'we have never gone to war for conquest, for
exploitation, nor for territory'; we have the word of a president
[McKinley] for that. Observe, now, how Providence overrules the
intentions of the truly good for their advantage. We went to war with
Mexico for peace, humanity and honor, yet emerged from the contest
with an extension of territory beyond the dreams of political avarice.
We went to war with Spain for relief of an oppressed people [the
Cubans], and at the close found ourselves in possession of vast and
rich insular dependencies [primarily the Philippines] and with a
pretty tight grasp upon the country for relief of whose oppressed
people we took up arms. We could hardly have profited more had
'territorial aggrandizement' been the spirit of our purpose and heart
of our hope. The slightest acquaintance with history shows that
powerful republics are the most warlike and unscrupulous of nations."

-Ambrose Bierce, Warlike America

Iran is no more a threat to America.than Iraq was. It is Israel that
is the greatest threat to America's survival.

Our real government is in Israel. We are all Jews now.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/ij_ch8.htm
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles4/Jones_Palestine.htm

It is doubtful that the United States will take part in the bombing
of
Iran despite the war rhetoric. It is Isreal beating the drums for war
and it is understandable as to why. Israel is the enemy of the entire
Arab/Muslim world of over one billion people. Should Israel, or the
United States attack Iran, the Arabs and Muslims, who are not
presently on friendly terms with each other, will unite and make life
unbearable for the Jews and any Americans presently in the Middle
East. Talking tough and threatning the rest of the world by greedy
warmongering Americans is no longer acceptable to the enemies of the
American Empire and the Jews in Palestine.

Even our alleged ally, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, whose governments
are
really frightened about Iranian power, their publics do not define
Iran as the major threat --- and the Egyptian people will not
support
their American puppet leaders. Syria, Lebanon, and even Jordan will
take the side of Iran if Iran is attacked. Who is left to defend the
Jews ? Even the majority of the American people do not want an
expansion of war in the area. We can't even win in Iraq, a country
that we bombed for over ten years before invading.

Americans are tired of war and want it ended. We have problems at
home
that must be addressed with money being spent to provide oil and
protection to Israel---no real friend of the Americans.

"War is a quarrel between two thieves too cowardly to fight their own
battle; therefore they take boys from one village and another
village,
stick them into uniforms, equip them with guns, and let them loose
like wild beasts against each other."

-Thomas Carlyle

"Nuke em" is the standard comment by those who will not be sent to
occupy the Iranian oil fields and try to keep the Iranians from
closing the Strait of Hormuz The Strait of Hormuz (26
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