In article
<66f204c5-3691-4f30-a21d-069e32c184be@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>, "Scott
M. Kozel" comcast.net> wrote:

The most recent high speed front end design is, I think, the Talgo "Pato"
("Duck") design. The very newest of Japanese Shinkansen (700 series?)
equipment may be newer. Both of those were developed in the last several
years, however.

You will find footage of both of those on youtube as well.

The TGV, by contrast, uses a front end design that is almost 30 years
old. Naturally, it isn't as good as the latest design methods are able to
produce.

gl4316@yahoo.com wrote:

Aerodynamic noise comes from the top, sides, wheels, and joints between
the cars, as well.

Scott M. Kozel wrote:

Very true. And even in those areas the Series 700 trains are far
superior from what I understand than the TGV design.

Scott M. Kozel schrieb:

Most interesting is the progress from train No. 3, 1970s design, with
the distinctive whistle for each powerhead at the ends and in the
middle, to the 1990s Duplex design (train 1 + 4).

Hans-Joachim

Scott M. Kozel schrieb:

You forgot the underside, which will create almost 50%% of the
aerodynamic resistance of an Amtrak train.

Otherwise yes, that's true, and it's the reason, why high-speed trains
have a lower profile (less total surface and less total drag),
completely smooth underside with the exception of the bogies, spoilers
for the pantographs, and in the form of the newly developed N-700 for
JR-West and JR-Central: Complete covers for the joints between cars.

At 270 km/h, the N-700 now consumes 68%% of the electricity, which was
slurped by original trains for the Tokaido Shinkansen at 220 km/h.

Hans-Joachim

Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:

It is interesting to note the difference in fuel consumption, if myou
drive a big truck with an adjustable fifth-wheel (the "hitch" on the
back of a semi-truck tractor).

If it is moved toward the front of the truck to minimize the gap between
cab and trailer fuel mileage is noticeably improved--even if the tractor
is fitted with "spoilers" at the sides and top.

No, I don't have any numbers at hand...

I wish I did.

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Laurence Sheldon wrote:

Hans-Joachim Zierke Zierke.com> Zierke wrote:

Didn't forget anything, really .... just responding to the post that
seemed to suggest that the "front" was the only factor in aerodynamic noise.

It sounded like a jet airliner going by ...

Scott M. Kozel schrieb:

You obviously never listened to jet airliners. In the 80s, a friend of
mine was living under the approach of Berlin Tegel. When talking on the
phone, we had to stop for each plane, though the newest types were
slightly better and allowed conversation by shouting into the phone.

The distance from approach path to the roofs of houses is slightly :-)
bigger than what you see on that video.

What you get with a highspeed train, is about the same level as a
motorway packed with trucks. The trucks don't generate much aero noise,
but plenty of tire noise.

Hans-Joachim