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Author: Paul J. BergPaul J. Berg Date: Jul 21, 2007 18:02
~
From The (Portland) Oregonian - July 21, 2007
Could you imagine a streetcar line up Northeast Sandy Boulevard?
And how about Hawthorne, Killingsworth and Woodstock, just to name a few
more?
The Portland Streetcar, long considered a downtown transit and
redevelopment tool, could reach disparate parts of the city under a
vision described on Friday by City Commissioner Sam Adams in a speech to
the Portland City Club. The commissioner oversees the Portland Office of
Transportation, which is developing a 30-year rail transit plan for the
city, with implications for the metro area.
"What would Portland look like if we implemented solutions to global
warming and peak oil?" Adams said. "It would look a lot like Portland
circa 1920, a time when the main means of motion were your feet,
streetcars and bikes."
The rail transit vision for the region was just one factor in a
wide-ranging speech on transportation that Adams portrayed as an
overwhelmed, underfunded system with a dire backlog of delayed
maintenance.
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Author: Lobby DosserLobby Dosser Date: Jul 21, 2007 19:17
> The more lofty future goals are intended to have a direct impact on
> land-use decisions in the city limits. Adams wants to see more dense
> residential and mixed-use development along existing transit lines,
> such as the yellow Interstate MAX line, and future lines.
>
> "The slow pace of redevelopment along the yellow line in North
> Portland concerns me," Adams said.
>
> "Every transit station in the city should be a vibrant micro-community
> with its own unique sense of place and identity," he said. "We need to
> maximize the return on our multi-billion dollar transit investments
> with station area development that makes walking, bicycling and
> transit the easiest and best set of travel choices."
>
But wait! Wasn't all this done on the "If we build it they will come."
basis?
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Author: gl4316gl4316 Date: Jul 21, 2007 22:03
>
> Poster's Note: Running streetcar lines down Sandy, Killingsworth,
> Hawthorne or Woodstock would not reduce traffic congestion. In fact, it
> is more than likely will increase the traffic congestion on these
> streets. Not to mention costing millions of dollars.
The Tuscan Trolley uses sections of track that were de-pavemented and
reconditioned for use, at a very low cost per mile.
Sandy and Killingsworth are a lost cause due to the 42 inch gauge of the
original streetcar lines in that area. However, the SE area (everything
crossing the Hawthorne Bridge) used standard gauge lines, so Hawthorne and
Woodstock might not be too bad to recondition rather than build new,
depending on the quality of what is under the streets.
Some elements of this plan might be good, but it needs to be implemented
properly. To be worthwhile, rail transit needs to be either extremely
frequent (taking advantage of the wear on steel rails over pavement) or
larger capacity (taking advantage of long trains over buses) or otherwise
have some advantage over a bus.
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Author: Lobby DosserLobby Dosser Date: Jul 21, 2007 22:22
> Yes, I realize that this is a 40 year plan or so. This is all the
> more reason to take a look at using the actual advantages of rail
> transit so that these can be incorporated into this plan. Otherwise,
> there is no point.
How many non-labor (hands on medical, etc) employees will travel to work
in 40 years? How many people will actually visit a retail outlet, even a
grocery store? If you get everyone on public transit, anything large
will need delivery. If it needs delivery, why bother going to a retail
outlet at all? What are the transportation needs of a society that
doesn't really need much transport?
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Author: george conklingeorge conklin Date: Jul 22, 2007 04:50
"Lobby Dosser" verizon.net> wrote in message
news:N6zoi.2344$ib7.1967@trnddc02...>> The more lofty future goals are intended to have a direct impact on
>> land-use decisions in the city limits. Adams wants to see more dense
>> residential and mixed-use development along existing transit lines,
>> such as the yellow Interstate MAX line, and future lines.
>>
>> "The slow pace of redevelopment along the yellow line in North
>> Portland concerns me," Adams said.
>>
>> "Every transit station in the city should be a vibrant micro-community
>> with its own unique sense of place and identity," he said. "We need to
>> maximize the return on our multi-billion dollar transit investments
>> with station area development that makes walking, bicycling and
>> transit the easiest and best set of travel choices."
>>
>
> But wait! Wasn't all this done on the "If we build it they will come." ...
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Author: StevenSteven Date: Jul 22, 2007 09:50
Who's drinking fancy beer while planning PT?
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Author: Rev. Bob 'Bob' CrispenRev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen Date: Jul 22, 2007 13:32
The kindly Rev. overheard "george conklin" nxu.edu> saying
on Sun 22 Jul 2007 06:50:44a:
> Historically of course street cars are what made cities sprawl in
> the first place, not cars, which were not an issue in the
> 1890s-1910s.
I recall that rail and light rail led to town-like clustering around
the stations and stops, not sprawl.
--
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
revbob at crispen dot org
Ex Cathedra weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/
Justice works when the arbiter isn't driven by the impulses that
drive the crime. Society is able to stand in judgement of a criminal
when society doesn
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Author: BaxterBaxter Date: Jul 22, 2007 13:58
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen" wrote in message
news:Xns99759E08F5CF3revbob@140.99.99.130...> The kindly Rev. overheard "george conklin" nxu.edu> saying
> on Sun 22 Jul 2007 06:50:44a:
>>> Historically of course street cars are what made cities sprawl in
>> the first place, not cars, which were not an issue in the
>> 1890s-1910s.
>
> I recall that rail and light rail led to town-like clustering around
> the stations and stops, not sprawl.
Conklin has a very strange definition of "sprawl"
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Author: GordonGordon Date: Jul 22, 2007 15:29
> I say this as a railfan: there is no reason to put streetcar lines in
> various places in Portland if all they will do is be a replacement for
> existing bus service that operates at the same capacity and same
speed.
> What's the point?
>
I read the article in the Oregonan I believe the plan was framed as a
way
to reduce greenhouse gas emisions, reduce polution, and deal with peak
oil. Of course these are poilicicly charged topics as well, so how you
feel about each of these subjects is going to affect how you think of
the
streetcar plan.
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Author: StevenSteven Date: Jul 22, 2007 16:15
On Jul 22, 2:32 pm, "Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen"
wrote:
> The kindly Rev. overheard "george conklin" nxu.edu> saying
> on Sun 22 Jul 2007 06:50:44a:
>>> Historically of course street cars are what made cities sprawl in
>> the first place, not cars, which were not an issue in the
>> 1890s-1910s.
>
> I recall that rail and light rail led to town-like clustering around
> the stations and stops, not sprawl.
> --
> Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
> revbob at crispen dot org
> Ex Cathedra weblog:http://blog.crispen.org/
>
> Justice works when the arbiter isn't driven by the impulses that
> drive the crime. Society is able to stand in judgement of a criminal
> when society doesn't do what the criminal does. - after Jesse Taylor
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