> Linda Lee wrote:

>> On May 21, 11:32 pm, Darrell Stec webpagesorcery.com>
>> wrote:

>>> Linda Lee wrote:

>>>> On May 21, 1:53 am, Carl nettally.com> wrote:

>>>>> On May 20, 10:04 pm, Linda Lee juno.com> wrote:

>

>>>>>> On May 20, 6:49 pm, saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:

>

>>>>>> ...

>

>>>>>>> exoteric Christianity was essentially invented by the
>>>>>>> same Jews who killed Christ, not those who followed Him.

>

>>>>>> Actually, since the false apostle (or chief apostle to the
>>>>>> antichrist, whichever you like) Saul/Paul likely was party to
>>>>>> bringing about Christ's crucifixion by the Romans (having later
>>>>>> begun the persecution of Christ's followers, beginning with
>>>>>> Stephen), and Christianity had become almost purely Pauline
>>>>>> Christianity after Paul's infiltration of Messianic Christianity,
>>>>>> you are very probably correct.

>

>>>>> You have no excuse for rejecting Paul and rejecting most of the New
>>>>> Testament. You have no excuse for rejecting the parts of God's Word
>>>>> that you do not like.

>

>>>> I am a Messianic Christian who follows the teachings of the Messiah;
>>>> you on the other hand are a Pauline idolater, following that heretic
>>>> and false prophet/false apostle Paul, rather than who you should be
>>>> following, Christ.

>

>>>> You have no excuse for following Paul.

>

>>>> Yahoshua` the Messiah said in Matt. 23:8-11 "But be not ye called
>>>> Rabbi: for one is your Master [guide, teacher], even Christ;

>

>>> Of course Joshua could have said no such thing if he lived in the first
>>> century CE, most especially the early half.  If you would do research on
>>> Rabbis, you would find that they are a second century phenomenon as was
>>> hatred of Pharisees and Sadduces.  The use of the term Rabbi, is one (of
>>> many, many) of the indicators as to the late date of the gospels

>

>>>> and all
>>>> ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one
>>>> is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters
>>>> [guides, teachers]: for one is your Master [Guide, Teacher], even
>>>> Christ."

>

>>>> The word here translated twice Master and once masters is Gk. 2519 -
>>>> meaning " a guide i.e. (figuratively) a teacher".

>

>>> You rely too much upon a poor English translation and like your sermon
>>> your
>>> proselytizing is based upon things that are not there.  The actual text
>>> of the verses from Matthew 23:7-ff is:

>

>>> kai tous aspasmous en tais agorais kai kalesthai hupo ton anthropon
>>> rhabbi

>

>>> [Continuing from verse one about the evils of scribes and Pharisees]  and
>>> the greetings in the marketplace and to be called by the men oh my master

>

>>> Outside of a few verses in the New Testament this borrowed Hebrew word
>>> appears nowhere else in ancient Greek literature of the first century CE.

>

>>> humeis de me klethete rhabbi eis gar estin humon ho didaskalos pantes de
>>> humeis adelphoi este

>

>>> but you might not be called o my master for one of you is the teacher but
>>> all of you are brothers

>

>>> Of course at odds with other quotes of Joshua by Matthew and other NT
>>> verses which we will cover below.

>

>>> και πατερα μη καλεσητε υμων επι της γης εις γαρ εστιν υμων ο πατηρ ο
>>> ουρανιος

>

>>> and you might not call one of you father on the earth for of you one is
>>> the farther the heavenly one

>

>>> This too is at odds with Joshua's words about honoring your parents but
>>> is in agreement with his words about causing a rift between them to
>>> follow him.

>

>>> mede klethete kathegetai oti kathegetes humon estin eis ho christos

>

>>> but you might not be called guide because the guide of you is the oiled
>>> one

>

>>> Note here the word 'kathegetes' translated as guide is not really a Greek
>>> word but is some time made up word by the author of Matthew essentially
>>> meaning to guide continually over and over again.

>

>>> Now to address the admonition against teaching.  First of all we have
>>> just a few chapters earlier in Matthew these words by Joshua:

>

>>> hos d an poiese kai didaxe outos megas klethesetai en in basileia ton
>>> ouranon

>

>>> but who might do and teach this one will be called great in the kingdom
>>> of the heavens

>

>>> So Joshua is saying that whoever teaches the little children will be
>>> great.

>

>>> And in an ending verse in Matthew Joshua says:

>

>>> poseuthentes oun matheteusate panta ta ethen baptiszontes autous eis to
>>> onoma tou patros kai tou uiou kai tou hagiou pneumatos didaskontes autos
>>> terein panta hosa enetelamen humin

>

>>> then having traveled make learners of all the nations baptizing them into
>>> the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit teaching them to
>>> keep all as much as I have commanded to you

>

>>> In Acts 5:42 we find the apostles did exactly that with Acts 16:21
>>> reiterating that while the Romans protested because they said under the
>>> law they were not suppose to be taught Jewish customs

>

>>> In I Corinthians 4:17 we find Paul following the advice to teach.
>>> Incidently in this same verse we find that Paul has sent his beloved
>>> child
>>> Timothy to Corinth.  Note that the Greek word used 'teknon' specifically
>>> menas produced from the body, i.e. a real son or daughter.

>

>>> Also we find the author of I Timothy 2:7 also saying he is teaching in
>>> Joshua's name and in 3:2 instructs bishops to teach (which of course is
>>> indicative of a late date for this epistle because it evidences a mature
>>> church with a hierarchy).  Again in I Timothy 4:11 we find the command to
>>> teach and again in I Timothy 6:3.  These same verses are paralleled in
>>> the
>>> II Timothy epistle.  Titus 2:4 instructs old men and women to teach their
>>> young counterparts holy, sober good behavior.  The epistle to the Hebrews
>>> instructs both to teach and later not to teach but learn from god the
>>> father.

>

>>> So why all this contradiction?  Well in the Matthew verse about not
>>> teaching or being called teacher one might note that the earlier verses
>>> are both in
>>> Mark (from whom Matthew copied) and in Luke almost word for word.  The
>>> part about not being called teacher was added to Matthew most like as a
>>> later
>>> interpolation.  It contradicts the other Matthew verses which are also
>>> paralleled in the other gospels.

>

>>>> Let one be your Teacher and Guide - Christ.

>

>>>> Christ told them not to be called teachers i.e. "masters". Christ did
>>>> not teach Paul what to teach anyone else and Paul says himself no man
>>>> taught him (Gal. 1:11-12), so Paul had NO BUSINESS teaching anyone.

>

>>> But then that contradicts all the other passages that are to be found in
>>> Matthew and repeated in Mark (from who those passages were copied) and
>>> Luke.  It also contradicts the passage in Acts, Timothy and Hebrews.
>>> More
>>> than likely that passage was added to Matthew much later.  And you are
>>> confusing teacher in that passage with rhabbi  which is a title meaning
>>> "o
>>> my master".  Note that Rabbis were primarily a second century CE and
>>> later phenomenon, a group formed after the destruction to the Temple in
>>> Jerusalem and as a response to it.

>

>>> But you are right, Paul did say he learned nothing from any man but
>>> rather from inspiration of the Old Testament and direct revelation of god
>>> the father.

>

>> Paul is about as believable as the poster here who claims he is St.
>> Peter and knows all from revelation.
>> I have to wonder why you atheists defend the validity of the false
>> apostle Paul - likely because you share the same 'father' - the Devil,
>> cursed children.

>
> I am merely pointing out that if the bible is the holy word of god, then you
> cannot pick and choose the parts you want to adhere to.

> Can you answer a question?  What part did god play in the creation of the
> bible?  Is it or is it not his holy word?  
>
> If your answers are NONE and NO then you can toss out any part of it you
> wish.  But if you do that, then you might as well toss all of it out
> because then it is little more than the creativity of fanatic, religious
> men and not even half as good as the Harry Potter series.
>
> Any other answers then you are admitting that you do not care about what god
> has to say when you pick and choose.  Yet somehow you seem to think that
> will get you to heaven.
>
> I merely point out the contradiction in what you say vs what you do.  You
> give lipservice to god, but then fart in his face rejecting his holy word.
>

>>> But that has no bearing on the subject at hand.

>

>>>> Where does Paul get off pretending to be our teacher when the Messiah
>>>> said for us to follow only him?  Follow the teachings of the true
>>>> apostles who were taught by the Messiah and reported what he taught.

>

>>> He gets it from Joshua telling his disciples to actually go out and teach
>>> all nations more than once in Matthew's gospel and repeated in the
>>> others.
>>> The passage you are relying on contradicts Joshua's other words.  And
>>> that
>>> passage is not contained in any of the other gospels.  It most likely was
>>> added later as an interpolation.

>

>> That is garbage. You claim the gospels must all be the same or the
>> differences are all interpolations (additions) by the translators;
>> then if they're the same, you'll say they copied each other. Do you
>> think people don't notice your devious methods?

>
> Again I see you suffering from the poor reading comprehension syndrome.  I
> said it was an interpolation because of two points, one of which the verses
> were nowhere else to be found in any of the other gospels which had quoted
> the material around it.  And also because it contradict other passages
> right in Matthew itself and the other gospels, Acts and many epistles.
>
> But then again, I am not the only one to say that.  Other biblical scholars
> have noted the same thing, most of them long before I did.  I am merely
> relating what they have commented on.