Linda Lee wrote:
> On May 22, 12:16 am, Darrell Stec
webpagesorcery.com>
> wrote:>> Linda Lee wrote:
>>> On May 21, 11:32 pm, Darrell Stec
webpagesorcery.com>
>>> wrote:>>>> Linda Lee wrote:
>>>>> On May 21, 1:53 am, Carl
nettally.com> wrote:>>>>>> On May 20, 10:04 pm, Linda Lee
juno.com> wrote:>>
>>>>>>> On May 20, 6:49 pm, saint7pe...@
hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>
>>>>>>>> exoteric Christianity was essentially invented by the
>>>>>>>> same Jews who killed Christ, not those who followed Him.
>>
>>>>>>> Actually, since the false apostle (or chief apostle to the
>>>>>>> antichrist, whichever you like) Saul/Paul likely was party to
>>>>>>> bringing about Christ's crucifixion by the Romans (having later
>>>>>>> begun the persecution of Christ's followers, beginning with
>>>>>>> Stephen), and Christianity had become almost purely Pauline
>>>>>>> Christianity after Paul's infiltration of Messianic Christianity,
>>>>>>> you are very probably correct.
>>
>>>>>> You have no excuse for rejecting Paul and rejecting most of the New
>>>>>> Testament. You have no excuse for rejecting the parts of God's Word
>>>>>> that you do not like.
>>
>>>>> I am a Messianic Christian who follows the teachings of the Messiah;
>>>>> you on the other hand are a Pauline idolater, following that heretic
>>>>> and false prophet/false apostle Paul, rather than who you should be
>>>>> following, Christ.
>>
>>>>> You have no excuse for following Paul.
>>
>>>>> Yahoshua` the Messiah said in Matt. 23:8-11 "But be not ye called
>>>>> Rabbi: for one is your Master [guide, teacher], even Christ;
>>
>>>> Of course Joshua could have said no such thing if he lived in the
>>>> first
>>>> century CE, most especially the early half. If you would do research
>>>> on Rabbis, you would find that they are a second century phenomenon as
>>>> was
>>>> hatred of Pharisees and Sadduces. The use of the term Rabbi, is one
>>>> (of many, many) of the indicators as to the late date of the gospels
>>
>>>>> and all
>>>>> ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one
>>>>> is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters
>>>>> [guides, teachers]: for one is your Master [Guide, Teacher], even
>>>>> Christ."
>>
>>>>> The word here translated twice Master and once masters is Gk. 2519 -
>>>>> meaning " a guide i.e. (figuratively) a teacher".
>>
>>>> You rely too much upon a poor English translation and like your sermon
>>>> your
>>>> proselytizing is based upon things that are not there. The actual
>>>> text of the verses from Matthew 23:7-ff is:
>>
>>>> kai tous aspasmous en tais agorais kai kalesthai hupo ton anthropon
>>>> rhabbi
>>
>>>> [Continuing from verse one about the evils of scribes and Pharisees]
>>>> [and
>>>> the greetings in the marketplace and to be called by the men oh my
>>>> master
>>
>>>> Outside of a few verses in the New Testament this borrowed Hebrew word
>>>> appears nowhere else in ancient Greek literature of the first century
>>>> CE.
>>
>>>> humeis de me klethete rhabbi eis gar estin humon ho didaskalos pantes
>>>> de humeis adelphoi este
>>
>>>> but you might not be called o my master for one of you is the teacher
>>>> but all of you are brothers
>>
>>>> Of course at odds with other quotes of Joshua by Matthew and other NT
>>>> verses which we will cover below.
>>
>>>> και πατερα μη καλεσητε υμων επι της γης εις γαρ εστιν υμων ο πατηρ ο
>>>> ουρανιος
>>
>>>> and you might not call one of you father on the earth for of you one
>>>> is the farther the heavenly one
>>
>>>> This too is at odds with Joshua's words about honoring your parents
>>>> but is in agreement with his words about causing a rift between them
>>>> to follow him.
>>
>>>> mede klethete kathegetai oti kathegetes humon estin eis ho christos
>>
>>>> but you might not be called guide because the guide of you is the
>>>> oiled one
>>
>>>> Note here the word 'kathegetes' translated as guide is not really a
>>>> Greek word but is some time made up word by the author of Matthew
>>>> essentially meaning to guide continually over and over again.
>>
>>>> Now to address the admonition against teaching. First of all we have
>>>> just a few chapters earlier in Matthew these words by Joshua:
>>
>>>> hos d an poiese kai didaxe outos megas klethesetai en in basileia ton
>>>> ouranon
>>
>>>> but who might do and teach this one will be called great in the
>>>> kingdom of the heavens
>>
>>>> So Joshua is saying that whoever teaches the little children will be
>>>> great.
>>
>>>> And in an ending verse in Matthew Joshua says:
>>
>>>> poseuthentes oun matheteusate panta ta ethen baptiszontes autous eis
>>>> to onoma tou patros kai tou uiou kai tou hagiou pneumatos didaskontes
>>>> autos terein panta hosa enetelamen humin
>>
>>>> then having traveled make learners of all the nations baptizing them
>>>> into the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit teaching
>>>> them to keep all as much as I have commanded to you
>>
>>>> In Acts 5:42 we find the apostles did exactly that with Acts 16:21
>>>> reiterating that while the Romans protested because they said under
>>>> the law they were not suppose to be taught Jewish customs
>>
>>>> In I Corinthians 4:17 we find Paul following the advice to teach.
>>>> Incidently in this same verse we find that Paul has sent his beloved
>>>> child
>>>> Timothy to Corinth. Note that the Greek word used 'teknon'
>>>> specifically menas produced from the body, i.e. a real son or
>>>> daughter.
>>
>>>> Also we find the author of I Timothy 2:7 also saying he is teaching in
>>>> Joshua's name and in 3:2 instructs bishops to teach (which of course
>>>> is indicative of a late date for this epistle because it evidences a
>>>> mature
>>>> church with a hierarchy). Again in I Timothy 4:11 we find the command
>>>> to
>>>> teach and again in I Timothy 6:3. These same verses are paralleled in
>>>> the
>>>> II Timothy epistle. Titus 2:4 instructs old men and women to teach
>>>> their
>>>> young counterparts holy, sober good behavior. The epistle to the
>>>> Hebrews instructs both to teach and later not to teach but learn from
>>>> god the father.
>>
>>>> So why all this contradiction? Well in the Matthew verse about not
>>>> teaching or being called teacher one might note that the earlier
>>>> verses are both in
>>>> Mark (from whom Matthew copied) and in Luke almost word for word. The
>>>> part about not being called teacher was added to Matthew most like as
>>>> a later
>>>> interpolation. It contradicts the other Matthew verses which are also
>>>> paralleled in the other gospels.
>>
>>>>> Let one be your Teacher and Guide - Christ.
>>
>>>>> Christ told them not to be called teachers i.e. "masters". Christ
>>>>> did not teach Paul what to teach anyone else and Paul says himself
>>>>> no man taught him (Gal. 1:11-12), so Paul had NO BUSINESS teaching
>>>>> anyone.
>>
>>>> But then that contradicts all the other passages that are to be found
>>>> in Matthew and repeated in Mark (from who those passages were copied)
>>>> and
>>>> Luke. It also contradicts the passage in Acts, Timothy and Hebrews.
>>>> More
>>>> than likely that passage was added to Matthew much later. And you are
>>>> confusing teacher in that passage with rhabbi which is a title
>>>> meaning "o
>>>> my master". Note that Rabbis were primarily a second century CE and
>>>> later phenomenon, a group formed after the destruction to the Temple
>>>> in Jerusalem and as a response to it.
>>
>>>> But you are right, Paul did say he learned nothing from any man but
>>>> rather from inspiration of the Old Testament and direct revelation of
>>>> god the
>>>> father. But that has no bearing on the subject at hand.
>>
>>>>> Where does Paul get off pretending to be our teacher when the
>>>>> Messiah
>>>>> said for us to follow only him? Follow the teachings of the true
>>>>> apostles who were taught by the Messiah and reported what he taught.
>>
>>>> He gets it from Joshua telling his disciples to actually go out and
>>>> teach all nations more than once in Matthew's gospel and repeated in
>>>> the others.
>>>> The passage you are relying on contradicts Joshua's other words. And
>>>> that
>>>> passage is not contained in any of the other gospels. It most likely
>>>> was added later as an interpolation.
>>
>>>> He gets it from the same source the others did and which Acts mentions
>>>> of
>>>> all the other apostles. They apparently believed Joshua told them to
>>>> teach others and the gospels certainly confirm that.
>>
>>>>> Follow Christ, our only Teacher and Guide by adhering to the
>>>>> teachings he taught his apostles to teach his followers, not your
>>>>> false apostle.
>>
>>>> Throw away your Strong's Concordance. It is not a Hebrew-English
>>>> Lexicon nor
>>>> a Greek-English Lexicon. Rather it is simple a cross reference to the
>>>> poorly translated KJV. A huge number of entries are at cross purposes
>>>> with any real lexicon where words are give special "spiritual"
>>>> meanings.
>>
>>>> If you want to understand the New Testament then first get a copy of
>>>> the Greek version (not the Textus Receptus) and then look up the words
>>>> in a real lexicon, then look up how the words are used in other non
>>>> biblical literature.
>>
>>>> --
>>>> Later,
>>>> Darrell Stec dars...@
neo.rr.com>>
>>
>>> The KJV is not poorly translated; it adheres closely to the Greek text
>>> unlike any of the versions your atheist buddy Mike just provided.
>>
>> How would you know? You don't read Greek. And it most certainly IS a
>> very
>> poor translation as been pointed out to you before with references. The
>> KJV used sources for the Greek and Hebrew that were CREATED less than 100
>> years before the KJV was made, and most of those were less than 50 years
>> old. The oldest Greek text they had was from the eleventh century and
>> they
>> barely made use of it. The primary Greek text was the Textus Receptus
>> which was the work of Desiderius Erasmus and was based much on the Roman
>> Catholic Latin Vulgate and the Douay Rheims Bible.
>
>
> The Douay Rheims Bible was one of the versions I quoted in a previous
> post that you claimed was based on the KJV. Now you recommend it.
I don't recommend it. I said that the KJV used the Textus Receptus which in
turn used the Douay Rheims version. That is why the KJV has the same
wording. I mentioned it because the KJV was based upon a poor copy of both
the Hebrew and the Greek, both lousy versions that were made barely 50
years before the KJV was started.
But you reading it that way only shows how poor your reading comprehension
truly is.
> You
> can't be believed. IOW, you LIE. Get lost! I'm not going to waste my
> time trying to catch all your lies; you're prolific.
>
> The Douay Rheims Bible - 2 Cor. 13:2 "I have told before and
> foretell, as present and now absent, to them that sinned before and to
> all the rest, that if I come again, I will not spare."
>
The words should be similar. Erasmus used it and Jerome's Latin Vulgate to
create the Textus Receptus which the KJV translators translated back into
English.
What I say is easily checked. You can find those facts very easily in any
good history of the bible. So the only lie here, Linda Lee, is in your
imagination.
> And by the way, perhaps you're unaware that Paul's claim in 2 Cor. 13
> that him repeating himself three times is not the same as three
> witnesses, which always involves three different people.
>
I'm glad you pointed that out, but I am well aware of those passages. Did I
mention that mathematics was one of my majors for a while when I was in the
seminary? I can count very well. But the only reason I can see that you
would bring this up was because you only glossed over what I had written,
and once again your reading comprehension failed you. Or you are being
dishonest again. I'll let you choose what label you want to put on your
own behavior.
>>
>> Many newer translations have used ancient manuscripts and fragments some
>> dating back to the 5th Century and some other recent finds that date as
>> far back as the second ...
>>
>> read more »
>
> And how would you know anything about the Scriptures, you freaking
> atheist?
Because I studied to become a priest, many, many long years starting as a
sophomore in high school taking classes 6 days a week year round with a few
days off on the high holy days such as Christmas, Easter and Francis of
Assisi's feast day. Because I not only read and have quite a few different
versions at hand, I also have the Hebrew, Greek and Latin texts as well. I
also studied Hebrew, Greek and Latin (and other languages) in the seminary.
Also to become a priest philosophy and theology degrees are a must.
Furthermore I have not stopped learning either, because new discoveries and
new manuscripts (or fragments) are being found all the time.
That is far more than you have studied or accomplished.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec darstec@
neo.rr.com
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
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