> "Tim" q.con> wrote in
> news:YZ6dndlqk7hPV1fVnZ2dnUVZ_qninZ2d@aci.on.ca:
>

>>> But yes, goods can have a market value even if no labor is invested
>>> in them. E.g., a diamond-laden meteorite which lands in my back yard.
>>> Or do you hold that its value is due to the effort I exert in picking
>>> it up and carrying it to a gem dealer?

>

>> I'd hold that you might get some money for it, but the market value of
>> finished stones will differ from the price you get. In essence the
>> buyer values the labour put into the finished stone. If they didn't
>> they'd but the unfinished stone for a lesser price. Or do you hold
>> that a raw diamond doesn't cost significantly less than a finished
>> diamond?

>
> You are ignoring the point. Or points. One of which is that the meteorite
> has a market value *prior* to the investment of any labor in it. The other
> is that the increased value of the diamonds after being cut is not due to
> the labor invested by the cutter, but to his knowledge of how and where to
> make those cuts. His labor -- the holding of the chisel and swinging of
> the
> hammer --- is not what adds value to the diamond. The same amount of labor
> applied by a woodcutter or a quarry worker would destroy whatever value
> the
> diamond had, not enhance it.

>

>>> That is indeed the 18th century analysis of production factors, when
>>> "labor" referred to human draft animals who pulled oars and plows,
>>> swung hammers and shovels, toted barges and lifted bales. You should
>>> read some more modern stuff, e.g., Paul Romer. The real factors are
>>> natural materials, knowledge and imagination, and capital. Labor is a
>>> minor component.

>

>> The books I read on the subject were written in the late 1980's. What
>> meaningfully changes by pulling knowledge and imagination out of
>> labour?

>
> What changes is that, once one realizes that it is not the physical effort
> invested which adds value to a product (or not much value), but the
> knowledge and skill with which that labor is exerted, then workers will
> understand that their incomes will be proportional to their knowledge and
> skills, not the number of hours they work or the number of calories they
> expend. Their employers will understand that the value of the work done by
> their employees can be increased by improving their workers' knowledge and
> skills.
>

> Even more importantly, what changes is the realization that unlike the
> amount of physical effort (as measured in the number of hours invested or
> the number of calories burned), there is no limit to the amount of value
> that can be produced via knowledge, skill, and imagination. The sky is the
> limit, for both the workers and their customers.