Fred Weiss
papertig.com> wrote:> On Sep 5, 12:34 pm, Bret Cahill
aol.com> wrote:>>>>>> The proof is in the pudding.
>>>>> You mean like USA gdp of $14trillion and gdp per capita of
>>>>> $46,000.
>>>> 1. That's not evenly distributed.
>>> Is it in China? The gap between rich and poor may, if anything,
>>> right now be greater in China than in the USA.
>>
>> But it's _decreasing_ in China...
> Cite.
> Admittedly, I don't know (but then neither do you). If I were to
> guess though I would guess that the gap is increasing in China
Corse it is.
> - and probably by more than in the USA.
Yep.
> It is in fact the very source of the economic dynamism of China
> right now that it is allowing people to become rich, even very rich.
And what matters, in numbers that werent seen previously.
> China now has over 100 billionaires vs. only a handful a couple of
> years ago. That's vs. the poor in China (mostly peasant farmers
> of which there are still 100's of millions) who, even today, are
> fortunate to eke out an income of a few hundred dollars a year.
> According to ChinaDaily there are over 20million Chinese who
> earn less than $100/yr.
Thats a lousy way to quantify subsistence agriculture tho.
> The official poverty cut-off in the USA by contrast is over $20,000 (for a
> family of 4) and only about 12%% of the population falls into that category.
The real poor in the US are those who exist entirely on welfare and foodstamps.
> You do the math.
> Or make up more B.S. to try and slither out of your absurd position.
He's clearly just dragging a troll the size of a dead whale.
> Btw, according to the same ChinaDaily the Chinese
> themselves officially categorize about 80million Chinese
> as middle class - or less than 7%% of the population.
What matters is how the middle class is defined. Tricky with china.
>>> The middle class in China, while growing,
>> The exact opposite of what's happening in the U. S.!
> Perhaps, especially since we're in an economic slow-down at the moment
You dont shift class due to that.
> and a major source of net worth for Americans is their
> homes which have decreased in value for the moment.
But a middle class person, say an engineer, doctor or teacher,
doesnt stop being a middle class person when that happens.
> But the Chinese still have a long, long way to go to catch up with us
> - or almost any major Western country for that matter, not to mention
> some of the more prosperous Asian countries, such as Japan.
That depends on how you define middle class. Certainly some damned
bureaucrat is hardly a 'worker' except in a mindless ideological sense.
>> Anyone who denies peak oil will deny anything.
> Do you deny the 30%% drop in crude oil prices in recent weeks?
Its just another of his trolls the size of a dead whale.
Just like the free speech troll has always been in spades.
> Not the price action you would expect in a world supposedly
> running out of oil. Of course anyone who understood economics
> could have anticipated this price drop - but that of course doesn't
> include you. Though it is noticeable that you've stopped squawking
> about $10/gallon gasoline recently - just as you stopped squawking
> about Hillary's expected landslide victory.
>> Is there any reason to believe China will not
>> continue to enjoy double digit growth rates?
> Certainly. It's unsustainable and no one has ever done it
No one has had that many people involved before either.
Its going to be interesting to watch.
> - especially not an economy as managed (and
> thus as prone to be fucked up) as is the Chinese.
Dunno, they have managed to move away from communism
a hell of a lot better than anyone else has done.
> (No one is smart enough to manage an entire economy.
No one is trying to do that anymore.
They are basically doing precisely what the Japs did, maintain
a significantly undervalued economy which makes what they
produce look very cheap and there is no evidence that they
will be stupid enough to stop doing that any time soon.
> Just ask Alan Greenspan who apparently once thought he was).
> We saw what happened to the "Asian Tigers" and their vaunted
> and oft touted managed economies in the 1990's when they, too,
> were regarded as unstoppable.
Taiwan and Singapore and HongKong were essentially unstoppable.
Its starting to look very like china will just continue that on a much larger scale.
> Japan has still not recovered, e.g. the Nikkei index even at its recent
> peak last year was still less than half what it was 10 yrs. ago.
Yes, but to some extent thats due to china finally getting its
act into gear and noticing that communism will never work
as well as capitalism and there isnt really anyone else that
can take over from china in the same way any decade soon,
particularly as so much of their production of goods ends up
being absorbed by the chinese themselves.
And their living standards are so low that they dont need to
have stupid projects like lining rivers with concrete like the
Japs tried to make work once the world moved off to china.
> But everyone, like you are doing now about China,
> was sure that Japan was going to "own us".
They were indeed.
> Btw, the Shanghai stock index is off over 50%% from
> its highs - or, in other words, its bubble burst.
Its almost completely irrelevant to china's economy.
>> Is there any reason to believe Soros erred believing
>> that the U. S. will be in a recession for decades?
> You mean other than he is an idiot who overgeneralizes from his
> skill at short term trading to the grandiose assumption that it gives
> him special insights into the long term direction of economies?
>> Is there any reason to believe Buffet, the most successful free
>> marketeer of all time, erred finally trading Dumbya dollars for
>> foreign currency?
> You mean other than the fact that he is now losing his shirt because
> the dollar has been rallying strongly? Just as Berkshire Hathaway
> stock has been falling?
> However, very much unlike you, I'm sure that Warren Buffet doesn't think he is omniscient.
>>> it will take China decades to catch up to the USA.
>> In just 6 years China will do what no other country on earth has done in over a century:
>> Surpass the size of the U. S. economy.
> It will need far more than the 10-12%% growth rates of recent years to accomplish that.
Yep, he's off in cloudcuckooland as always.
> It has to bridge the gap between a $3-4trillion gdp and a $13-14trillion gdp.
> Apparently you have some difficulty with basic arithmetic.
And with everything else except trolling in spades.
>>> And once more, what does that have to do with "free speech on economic issues"?
>> They have a growing middle class and a growing economy.
>> They have free speech on economic issues.
> Do you know what a non-sequitur is?
No such thing with a troll.
