On Mar 31, 1:31 pm, Robert Epstein
verizon.net> wrote:>> On Mar 31, 10:42 am, Robert Epstein
verizon.net> wrote:>
>
>>>>Anyone who actually reads the Talmud and the writings of Maimonides,
>>>>for instance, knows that Judaism is very strongly racist, more
>>>>strongly than any other religion or belief system on earth. If you
>>>>deny that, you are either ignorant or a lying demagogue yourself. I
>>>>presume the latter. Anyone who tries to reason with the Jews on this
>>>>newsgroup, knows how demented they are and completely incapable of
>>>>dialogue or reason. All they do is present deadening dogma meant to
>>>>intimidate.
>
>>>Okay, pj, I don't want to intimidate you, although I'm sure that would
>>>be impossible anyway. Let's "reason" together, as you request above.
>>>Give me a single quote from the Talmud that is racist, and give me one
>>>example of racism in Judaism. I'm not asking you to review your entire
>>>argument, which I apparently missed. How about just one piece of
>>>evidence to show that you have something to back up your view. Is that
>>>asking too much?
>
>>>Now I will freely admit that there is institutional racism in the
>>>treatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli government. I consider
>>>that more of a horrible political situation than anything else, which
>>>needs to be corrected. And there are definitely some Jews that are
>>>racists, just as there are racists in every community. But show me that
>>>Judaism itself is "strongly racist" as you assert above, and "more
>>>strongly than any other religion or belief system on earth" as you say
>>>above. Just give an illustration of each of those assertions, so we can
>>>both be reasonable and talk about evidence instead of mere belief.
>
>>>Robert
>
>>>- - - - - - - - - -
>
>> All "published" Jews think there is something special about Jews vis-a-
>> vis the "Jewish soul." The literature commpares the souls of
>> Gentiles to the souls of animals, by comparison to the souls of Jews.
>> You may or may not know the doctrine of the five levels of soul:
>> Ruah, Nefesh, Neshamah, Chayah, and Yechidah. JHVH only exists within
>> this "Jewish soul," and so Gentiles can not know JHVH in the way that
>> Jews can. Although, JHVH is unquiqely the "Jewish G-D," he governs
>> all, and all must be obedient to JHVH, even though they cannot have
>> same intimate relationship to JHVH that Jews can. The Noahide Laws
>> enforce this unbalanced state of affairs. The Gentiles, to avoid
>> destruction, must acknowledge the Jewish G-D and avoid worshipping or
>> even achkonwledging any other God, including a God that might be
>> unique to the particular Gentiles. The Gentile nation must adopt a
>> judicial system that enforces the exclusive belief in the Jewish G-D,
>> thus destroying the separation of church and state. Now here's the
>> kicker: a Public Law was passed by Congress in 1991 honoring Rebbe
>> Schneerson on his birthday and proclaiming the Noahide Laws in
>> principle within the United States, thus destroying American
>> democracy, in principle. The only thing that has saved us is the
>> death of Rebbe Schneerson, which extinguished the possibility that he
>> could be regarded as the Messiah. Otherwise, we might have a Jewish
>> theocracy today, instead of an American democracy. This needs looking
>> into, but I believe we came as close to that dire end as to a literal
>> end during the Cuban Missle Crisis. We have only the true G-D of
>> Israel to thank for extinguishing the Antichrist, Rebbe Scheerson,
>> before he could rise to power.
>
> Well, thanks for discussing what you meant by "Jewish racism." I would
> not call it that, as it is not prejudice against a particular race, but
> more of an avowal of specialness for one's own race.
That's pretty weasily, Robert. You have just excused White Racism.
> I think many races
> feel that way, not just the Jews.
Absolutely. Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, French, and many more. But
it is still racism.
> However, most Jews do not believe
> that the Jewish people have a station above other peoples. That, I
> think, is as fairly small phenomenon. No one in my family or friends
> who are Jewish feel that way.
Do NONE of them believe they belong to the "chosen people"? If they
do, it is racism. If not, you live in a very unusual pocket of Jews.
> However, I think among some of the
> orthodox sects that feeling may indeed be there, although I still
> wouldn't call it racism. More like grandiosity or triumphalism or
> something like that. Racism seeks to explicitly make others inferior
> under the law or within institutions. Just saying "Jews are special"
> does not do this.
Would you like some examples? Here is a selection:
http://www.daatemet.org/articles/article.cfm?article_id=119&lang=en
We have already mentioned the words of the Ra'avad with regards to an
animal slaughtered by a Gentile: "for the Gentiles are like
animals...and one who thinks of them as something [worthwhile] will
gather the wind in his fist."
... as Chazal said: 'You are called men and the nations are not called
men,' as though it were an ordinary thing for them, that the
comparison between Israel and the Gentiles is similar to the
comparison between man and animals who cannot speak.
The Maharal of Prague OBM, explains the saying of Rabbi Shimon bar
Yochai, "You are called men" in a number of places. In the book
Gevurot HaShem chapter 44 (page 167) he wrote: "...for even if all
human beings have a common shape, there still is a distinction...there
are nations who have more of a tendency towards the physical and their
actions testify to this, for they are inclined towards lust and
abominable things. This is evidence of their materialistic
nature...and as we find animals, which are like an intermediary
between man and the rest of the animal world, such as the
monkey...likewise there exist men -- who are not completely men.
E. Rabbi Abraham Issac HaCohen Kook, first chief Rabbi of Palestine:
In the book "Orot," Orot Yisrael chapter 5, article 10 (page 156),
Rabbi Kook wrote: "The difference between the Jewish soul, in all its
independence, inner desires, longings, character and standing, and the
soul of all the Gentiles, on all of their levels, is greater and
deeper than the difference between the soul of a man and the soul of
an animal, for the difference in the latter case is one of quantity,
while the difference in the first case is one of essential quality."
> There is some real racism among some Jews, and the
> most glaring example is the treatment of Palestinians in some aspects of
> Israeli-Palestinian life. Most Israelis however do not agree with this
> mistreatment and want to correct it.
Racism permeates both doctrine and practice, both historically and
present-day. Read the Jewish Encyclopedia article on Gentiles.
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=142&letter=G&search=gentile
Consider the doctrine that the greatest suffering in the war was
inflicted on the Jews. Consider the only people who demanded
retributions and received from Germany (Israel). Consider the
Holocaust monuments and museums throughout America, all without a
single memorial to the many millions more Americans, Ukrainians,
Austrians, Russians, Cossacks, French, British, and others who died -
unless they were Jewish (or maybe homosexual or Gypsy). The history
is twisted to represent that only the Jewish deaths mattered.
Racism is a very big problem in Judaism. Like a White Southerner who
does not SEE racism among his neighbors, you do not see racism in
yourself or your friends. How could you?
TCross
