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Date: Nov 28, 2007 11:22
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:34:46 -0500, "LarryLook" noemail.com> wrote:
>The problem with this newsgroup is the following. The anti's here are under
>the assumptions:
>
>1. That vegetarians don't think modern lifestyle kills anything.
Some of us don't believe you're honestly too stupid to understand
that you contribute to most of the same wildlife deaths that everyone
else does. Some of us believe deep down you are actually aware
of it, meaning that we think you lie to everyone else in your attempts
to promote veg*nism, and possibly even lie to yourselves in order to
reduce the discomfort of your cognitive dissonance which results
from it.
>That's crazy.
You are the ones who give the impression that you're too stupid
to understand, so if anyone has that impression it is YOUR fault.
As I pointed out above, some of us believe you are really more
dishonest than you are stupid, though maybe not by much.
>I must kill and occassional ant driving to work. I admit it. So
>there.
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Author: Bob LeChevalierBob LeChevalier Date: Dec 3, 2007 04:11
>On Nov 28, 11:22 am, dh@. wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:34:46 -0500, "LarryLook" noemail.com> wrote:>>>The problem with this newsgroup is the following. The anti's here are under
>>>the...
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Author: Bob LeChevalierBob LeChevalier Date: Dec 3, 2007 21:16
>On Dec 3, 4:11 am, Bob LeChevalier lojban.org> wrote:>> Rupert yahoo.com> wrote:>>>On Nov 28, 11:22 am, dh@. wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:34:46 -0500, "LarryLook" noemail.com> wrote:>>>>>The problem with this newsgroup is the following. The anti's here are under
>>>>>the assumptions:
>>
>>>>>1. That vegetarians don't think modern lifestyle kills anything.
>>
>>>> Some of us don't believe you're honestly too stupid to understand
>>>> that you contribute to most of the same wildlife deaths that everyone
>>>> else does. Some of us believe deep down you are actually aware
>>>> of it, meaning that we think you lie to everyone else in your attempts
>>>> to promote veg*nism, and possibly even lie to yourselves in order to
>>>> reduce the discomfort of your cognitive dissonance which results
>>>> from it.
>>
>>>Did you listen to him? He acknowledged that deaths occur in order to
>>>support his lifestyle. ...
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Author: pearlpearl Date: Dec 4, 2007 05:19
"Bob LeChevalier" lojban.org> wrote in message news:s9o9l3lq3k816op7ouuikb50o7olbu4ub7@4ax.com...> Rupert yahoo.com> wrote:>>On Dec 3, 4:11 am, Bob LeChevalier lojban.org> wrote:>>> Rupert yahoo.com> wrote:>>>>On Nov 28, 11:22 am, dh@. wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:34:46 -0500, "LarryLook" noemail.com> wrote:>>>>>>The problem with this newsgroup is the following. The anti's here are under
>>>>>>the assumptions:
>>>
>>>>>>1. That vegetarians don't think modern lifestyle kills anything.
>>>
>>>>> Some of us don't believe you're honestly too stupid to understand
>>>>> that you contribute to most of the same wildlife deaths that everyone
>>>>> else does. Some of us believe deep down you are actually aware
>>>>> of it, meaning that we think you lie to everyone else in your attempts
>>>>> to promote veg*nism, and possibly even lie to yourselves in order to
>>>>> reduce the discomfort of your cognitive dissonance which results
>>>>> from it.
>>>
>>>>Did you listen to him? He acknowledged that deaths occur in order to ...
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Author: Barb KnoxBarb Knox Date: Dec 4, 2007 12:19
In article reader01.news.esat.net>,
"pearl" wrote:
[SNIP]
> It[']s not natural
Humans are omnivores, as evidenced by (among other things) the teeth and
the intestines. So both eating meat and eating veggies are "natural".
Whether or not eating meat is considered "ethical" is a whole 'nother
kettle of fish (or fava beans).
--
---------------------------
| BBB b \ Barbara at LivingHistory stop co stop uk
| B B aa rrr b |
| BBB a a r bbb | Quidquid latine dictum sit,
| B B a a r b b | altum viditur.
| BBB aa a r bbb |
-----------------------------
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Author: pearlpearl Date: Dec 4, 2007 13:11
"Barb Knox" wrote in message news:see-00D3B1.09195705122007@lust.ihug.co.nz...> In article reader01.news.esat.net>,
> "pearl" wrote:
>
> [SNIP]
>>> It[']s not natural
>
> Humans are omnivores, as evidenced by (among other things) the teeth and
> the intestines. So both eating meat and eating veggies are "natural".
It's a very sorry state of affairs when 'we' don't even know what
our natural dietary niche is.
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Author: Michael GordgeMichael Gordge Date: Dec 4, 2007 14:08
On Dec 4, 2:16 pm, Bob LeChevalier lojban.org> wrote:> Rupert yahoo.com> wrote:>>On Dec 3, 4:11 am, Bob LeChevalier lojban.org> wrote:>>> Rupert yahoo.com> wrote:>>>>On Nov 28, 11:22 am, dh@. wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:34:46 -0500, "LarryLook" noemail.com> wrote:>>>>>>The problem with this newsgroup is the following. The anti's here are under
>>>>>>the assumptions:
>
>>>>>>1. That vegetarians don't think modern lifestyle kills anything.
>
>>>>> Some of us don't believe you're honestly too stupid to understand
>>>>> that you contribute to most of the same wildlife deaths that everyone
>>>>> else does. Some of us believe deep down you are actually aware
>>>>> of it, meaning that we think you lie to everyone else in your attempts
>>>>> to promote veg*nism, and possibly even lie to yourselves in order to
>>>>> reduce the discomfort of your cognitive dissonance which results
>>>>> from it.
>
>>>>Did you listen to him? He acknowledged that deaths occur in order to ...
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Author: Bob LeChevalierBob LeChevalier Date: Dec 5, 2007 06:20
"pearl" wrote:
>"Bob LeChevalier" lojban.org> wrote in message news:9tucl39c5bs7fllh581mgshs81a49fbiec@4ax.com...
>>> The redefinition of "murder" to include animals is one such
>> redefinition,
>
>'murder
>..
>v.tr.
>1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
>2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.
>..
> http://www.answers.com/murder&r=67
>
>"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the
>murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
>- Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist.
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Author: Barb KnoxBarb Knox Date: Dec 5, 2007 21:06
In article reader01.news.esat.net>,
"pearl" wrote:
[SNIP]>
> With respect to all mammals, birds, and reptiles, we know that
> they possess a sufficiently complex neural structure to enable pain
> to be felt plus an evolutionary need for such consciously felt states.
You avoided responding to this issue in a previous thread, so I'll try
again: We agree that animals possess sensors for various dangerous
stimuli (intense heat, cold, pressure, etc.), and that they are
neurologically complex enough to consistently respond in ways to avoid
such stimuli; BUT, the scientific state of the art is currently unable
to tell us if they have any SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE analogous to our
feelings of pain, or for that matter any subjective experience of
anything at all. One could build a small mobile robot that senses and
avoids extreme environmental conditions, but surely from seeing its
purposeful behaviour you would not leap to the conclusion that it had
"consciously felt states". Or would you?
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Author: RupertRupert Date: Dec 6, 2007 03:51
On Dec 5, 6:40 pm, Bob LeChevalier lojban.org> wrote:> Rupert yahoo.com> wrote:>>There are plenty of respectable arguments for ethical vegetarianism.
>
> All based on assumptions that are peculiar to the ethical vegetarian,
> and hence utterly meaningless to all the rest of us that reject those
> assumptions.
>
No, actually, that's not right. We can have a serious discussion of
these arguments if you want.
>>You have given no evidence that you are aware of what they are.
>
> There are meaningless to me, so I have tuned them out.
>
I don't think you've actually encountered the strongest arguments.
>
>
> I laugh at all isms.
>
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