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Author: GeneGene Date: May 6, 2008 17:45
Howard Brazee brazee.net> wrote in
news:0mn124h0mas14jtq3uj2mcdo4q9v2o3c0v@4ax.com:
> For a long time, religions did not make a real distinction
between the
> natural and supernatural. They figured everything was part
of our
> world together. That has changed.
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Author: Dan CloreDan Clore Date: May 6, 2008 18:01
Gene wrote:
>>> It seems quite popular now for new atheists to insist that
> one cannot
>>> jump from 'is' to 'ought'. For example, if a professional
> historian
>>> claims that what Hitler did was influenced by underlying
> Darwinian
>>> principles,
>> Then this professional historian should lose his job. Hitler
> was a
>> Creationist and endorsed Creationism in _Mein Kampf_.
>
> You speak as if Hitler articulated some clearly worked out
> theory. He didn't. He did babble on about both God and the
> struggle between the strong and the weak in nature, with
> victory going to the strong. God seems be on the side of the
> overdog. Calling that either Creationism or Darwinism is ...
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Author: James A. DonaldJames A. Donald Date: May 6, 2008 20:33
James A. Donald wrote:
>>>> Evolution.
>>>>
>>>> We are a pack animal. Our mode of survival requires collaboration
>>>> with others. We therefore prefer to collaborate with those that seem
>>>> unlikely to cut our throats, and need to persuade others we are
>>>> unlikely to cut their throats.
>>>>
>>>> "Evil" is those characteristics that indicate a willingness to harm
>>>> friends, associates and random innocents in the general vicinity,
>>>> "evil acts" are acts indicative of such propensity.
monkfish
>>> Is that why there are so much evil in the world?
James A. Donald:
>> The world is what it is. The question that was asked is why humans
>> feel about it as they do.
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Author: Mike SchillingMike Schilling Date: May 6, 2008 22:15
Gene wrote:
> Howard Brazee brazee.net> wrote in
> news:0mn124h0mas14jtq3uj2mcdo4q9v2o3c0v@4ax.com:
>>> For a long time, religions did not make a real distinction between
>> the natural and supernatural. They figured everything was part
>> of
>> our world together. That has changed.
The medieval proofs of God's existence are further evidence. Many of
them used facets of the everyday, natural world to demonstrate that a
Supreme Being must exist. Much like today's IDers, come to think of
it.
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Author: Dennis L. McKiernanDennis L. McKiernan Date: May 7, 2008 07:38
Religion deals with the so-called supernatural (you know, miracles,
magic [like walking on water], etc.) and magical thinking (you know,
things like "if I complete this rite, something good/bad will happen";
for example, prayer and transubstantiation fall into this category of
magical thinking).
Ethics and morality deals with social interactions (you know,
civilization, law, etc.).
Ethics and morality (social constructs) can exist without miracles and
magic and magical thinking; religion, it seems, cannot.
Way back when ... religion co-opted ethics and morality and coupled it
to their magical-thinking teachings (you know, if you do bad things
you'll go to hell; if you do good things you'll go to paradise; not
believing in my god will send you to hell; but believing in my god will
get you to heaven. Doing some bad things, like, say, blowing yourself
up at a wedding and killing lots of people [unbelievers: those who do
not follow my interpretation of the holy scriptures and rites], will get
you to paradise, too).
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Date: May 7, 2008 08:11
James A. Donald wrote:
> James A. Donald wrote:
>>>>> Evolution.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are a pack animal. Our mode of survival requires collaboration
>>>>> with others. We therefore prefer to collaborate with those that...
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Author: Wayne ThroopWayne Throop Date: May 7, 2008 10:48
: "Dennis L. McKiernan" worldnet.att.net>
: But, I repeat, ethics and morality (social constructs, mainly dealing
: with how people can get along with one another) can exist without
: miracles and magic and magical thinking.
Consider how sad it would be if nobody could come up with a rule for which
side of the street to drive on, or whether red means stop or go, without
divine intervention. Why it's any harder to come up with "thou shalt not
go around killing people" is unclear.
Wayne Throop throopw@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
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Author: Michael Alan CharyMichael Alan Chary Date: May 7, 2008 11:57
In article <1210182489@ sheol.org>, Wayne Throop sheol.org> wrote:>: "Dennis L. McKiernan" worldnet.att.net>
>: But, I repeat, ethics and morality (social constructs, mainly dealing
>: with how people can get along with one another) can exist without
>: miracles and magic and magical thinking.
>
>Consider how sad it would be if nobody could come up with a rule for which
>side of the street to drive on, or whether red means stop or go, without
>divine intervention. Why it's any harder to come up with "thou shalt not
>go around killing people" is unclear.
>
Yet it is unquestionably the case, partially because nobody has that rule.
What they insterad have is "These are the appropriate circumstances under
which..."
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Author: David DeLaneyDavid DeLaney Date: May 7, 2008 09:38
Michael Alan Chary panix.com> wrote:>Wayne Throop sheol.org> wrote:>>: "Dennis L. McKiernan" worldnet.att.net>
>>: But, I repeat, ethics and morality (social constructs, mainly dealing
>>: with how people can get along with one another) can exist without
>>: miracles and magic and magical thinking.
>>
>>Consider how sad it would be if nobody could come up with a rule for which
>>side of the street to drive on, or whether red means stop or go, without
>>divine intervention. Why it's any harder to come up with "thou shalt not
>>go around killing people" is unclear.>
>Yet it is unquestionably the case, partially because nobody has that rule.
Trent does, though his is shorter.
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Author: Michael Alan CharyMichael Alan Chary Date: May 7, 2008 14:00
In article gatekeeper.vic.com>,
David DeLaney gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:>Michael Alan Chary panix.com> wrote:>>Wayne Throop sheol.org> wrote:>>>: "Dennis L. McKiernan" worldnet.att.net>
>>>: But, I repeat, ethics and morality (social constructs, mainly dealing
>>>: with how people can get along with one another) can exist without
>>>: miracles and magic and magical thinking.
>>>
>>>Consider how sad it would be if nobody could come up with a rule for which
>>>side of the street to drive on, or whether red means stop or go, without
>>>divine intervention. Why it's any harder to come up with "thou shalt not
>>>go around killing people" is unclear.>>
>>Yet it is unquestionably the case, partially because nobody has that rule.
>
>Trent does...
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