Jerry Kraus wrote:
> On Sep 9, 9:25 pm, doug
xx.com> wrote:
> >>Jerry Kraus wrote:
>>
>>>On Sep 9, 1:40 pm, doug
xx.com> wrote:>>
>>>>Jerry Kraus wrote:
>>
>>>>>On Sep 9, 12:48 pm, doug
xx.com> wrote:>>
>>>>>>Jerry Kraus wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>On Sep 8, 1:28 pm, doug
xx.com> wrote:>>
>>>>>>>>Jerry Kraus wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>On Sep 8, 12:28 pm, doug
xx.com> wrote:>>
>>>>>>>>>>Jerry Kraus wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Sep 8, 10:59 am, "tadams...@
yahoo.com"
yahoo.com> wrote:>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Sep 2, 10:49 am, Jerry Kraus
yahoo.com> wrote:>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Modern scientists tend to misinterpret the recent rehabilitation of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Galileo Galilei as indicating that Church admits that they were wrong
>>>>>>>>>>>>>to prosecute him, at the time. This is most certainly not the the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>case. All the Church is saying is that Galileo was not a bad person,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>and that his writings, even his satires of the Church, no longer pose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>any social threat.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jesuit Father Sabino Maffeo, the Vatican Observatory's vice director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>for administration, told CNS that Galileo ran into trouble with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Holy Office because he did not have proof for his claims.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Not having proof ... (the Holy Office) was forced to hold on to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>centuries-old concept" that saw Earth as the center of the cosmos, he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>said.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>If he had had proof, which did not come for another 100 years with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>discoveries made by Isaac Newton, Galileo's fate could have been much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>different, Father Maffeo said. He added that Italian Cardinal Robert
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bellarmine, who was part of the 17th-century Vatican commission that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>admonished Galileo not to hold or defend the Copernican theory, had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>told Galileo "the day in which you bring a demonstration then we will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>have to look at how sacred Scripture gets interpreted differently,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>as long as there is no proof, we will continue to interpret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>(Scripture) literally as we have all along."
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>...
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>What would have happened if the Church had not prosecuted or censured
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Galileo? Would Newton have had the same incentive to develop his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>comprehensive Copernican explanation of the Universe? Would society
>>>>>>>>>>>>>have been destabilized by lack of faith in the Church and conventional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>social order?
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>What implications does this example have for modern Church criticisms
>>>>>>>>>>>>>of scientific theories such as Evolution and the Big Bang? Does the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Church, or other social institutions have some role in integating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>scientific concepts into the broader social perspective? Was Galileo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>a kind of idiot-savant, not understanding how to fully develop his own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>ideas? Is this a common problem among scientists in general, who are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>not holistic thinkers, however skilled they may be in their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>speciality?
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"Though I thought they [Galileo's views on the solar system] were
>>>>>>>>>>>>based on very certain and evident proofs, I would not wish, for
>>>>>>>>>>>>anything in the world, to maintain them against the authority of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>Church." - Rene Descartes.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Descartes fled to the Protestant part of Europe after Galileo's trial.- Hide quoted text -
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>>>>>>>>>>>Nevertheless, the scientific method is a Christian concept, and was
>>>>>>>>>>>nurtured systematically by the Church. The notion that scientists
>>>>>>>>>>>should always go unchallenged is not necessarily a constructive one.
>>>>>>>>>>>The one extreme is Church suppression. The other is academic self-
>>>>>>>>>>>indulgence and incompetence. There may be a happy medium that should
>>>>>>>>>>>be striven for.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>You apparently have no idea how science works. The point of science is
>>>>>>>>>>to look for the truth which is, of course, testable. Scientists test
>>>>>>>>>>things that other scientists do. They challenge each other all the time
>>>>>>>>>>both for professional and ego reasons.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>Openness gets you truth. The church is not interested in that.- Hide quoted text -
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>>>>>>>>>I know exactly how science works, Doug. Professional bureaucrats play
>>>>>>>>>political games to drum anyone out of the field who threatens their
>>>>>>>>>own position.
>>
>>>>>>First of all, scientists are not bureaucrats. You are showing your
>>>>>>ignorance.
>>
>>>>>> Scientists lie systematically to advance their own
>>
>>>>>>>>>agenda at the expense of their opponents,
>>
>>>>>>You are thinking about religion. Science is testable. Lies are not.
>>>>>>You need to study something about science.
>>
>>>>>>and don't give a damn about
>>
>>>>>>>>>anything except their own power. Professional science is exclusively
>>>>>>>>>concerned with power. Truth is a matter of total indifference to the
>>>>>>>>>professional scientific community.
>>
>>>>>>No, you are confusing this with religion. See above.
>>
>>>>>>>>You have no clue about science. You have hate and bias. Learn something
>>>>>>>>and you will be embarrassed. I have been in this business for over 40
>>>>>>>>years and you are wrong.- Hide quoted text -
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>>>>>>>>- Show quoted text -
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>>>>>>>You're a crook, Doug. Admit it.
>>
>>>>>>This is humorous but before you go out to read your first book about
>>>>>>science, first go buy a dictionary (you know the one with all the
>>>>>>words but not much of a plot) and look up crook. You clearly do not
>>>>>>understand the word. In science, you are not allowed to randomly
>>>>>>redefine words the way you do in philosophy.
>>
>>>>>>I do not know whether to pity you for your ignorance or to be
>>>>>>disgusted with your reveling in it.- Hide quoted text -
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>>>>>>- Show quoted text -
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>>>>>Doug, you're a moron.
>>
>>>>When you get your dictionary, look up the word "moron". You may be
>>>>surprised to see what it means.
>>
>>>>>As, indeed, are quite a few "scientists". By glorifying stupidity,
>>>>>like yours,
>>
>>>>Science glorifies facts and truth.
>>
>>>>and calling questioning it "ignorance", you help to
>>
>>>>>prevent progress, and maintain the status quo.
>>
>>>>Yes we have stopped the internet, stopped all the industrial
>>>>development, stopped all medical research etc. What world do
>>>>you actually live in?
>>
>>>>Resources are witheld> from useful work, in preference to "bells and whistles" technology of
>>
>>>>>the type Corporate Giants like Microsoft favor. Don't change
>>>>>anything, that might undermine the current power base. We don't want
>>>>>progress, we want stability. Just like the mediaeval Catholic
>>>>>Church. Actually, they might have been more progressive than the
>>>>>current military-industrial-scientific bureaucracy that you favor!
>>
>>>>I finally realized that your issue is jealousy. You feel that someone
>>>>else got something you deserved. This is a very childish behaviour
>>>>and I cannot help you with your problems. It must be a very sad
>>>>life for you though.
>>
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>>>I see I'm dealing with a member of the military-industrial-scientific
>>>bureaucracy here. Anyone who doesn't want to kill and steal for a
>>>living is "jealous" of those who do. Yeah, right.
>>
>>My goodness, your jealousy is really getting to you. You certainly live
>>in a sad world. Why are you looking to make yourself so unhappy? This
>>does explain why you hate Galileo and were happy to have him get
>>persecuted because of the stupidity of the church.
>>
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>
>
> Doug, you're a moron. Keep talking. You help to prove my point.
>
I still feel sorry for you and wish that you would put some effort into
learning rather than just into hate and jealousy.
