> On Sep 8, 12:28 pm, doug xx.com> wrote:
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>> Jerry Kraus wrote:

>>> On Sep 8, 10:59 am, "tadams...@yahoo.com" yahoo.com> wrote:

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>>>>On Sep 2, 10:49 am, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:

>

>>>>>Modern scientists tend to misinterpret the recent rehabilitation of
>>>>>Galileo Galilei as indicating that Church admits that they were wrong
>>>>>to prosecute him, at the time.  This is most certainly not the the
>>>>>case.  All the Church is saying is that Galileo was not a bad person,
>>>>>and that his writings, even his satires of the Church,  no longer pose
>>>>>any social threat.

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>>>>>http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801299.htm

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>>>>>...
>>>>>Jesuit Father Sabino Maffeo, the Vatican Observatory's vice director
>>>>>for administration, told CNS that Galileo ran into trouble with the
>>>>>Holy Office because he did not have proof for his claims.

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>>>>>"Not having proof ... (the Holy Office) was forced to hold on to the
>>>>>centuries-old concept" that saw Earth as the center of the cosmos, he
>>>>>said.

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>>>>>If he had had proof, which did not come for another 100 years with
>>>>>discoveries made by Isaac Newton, Galileo's fate could have been much
>>>>>different, Father Maffeo said. He added that Italian Cardinal Robert
>>>>>Bellarmine, who was part of the 17th-century Vatican commission that
>>>>>admonished Galileo not to hold or defend the Copernican theory, had
>>>>>told Galileo "the day in which you bring a demonstration then we will
>>>>>have to look at how sacred Scripture gets interpreted differently,
>>>>>but
>>>>>as long as there is no proof, we will continue to interpret
>>>>>(Scripture) literally as we have all along."

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>>>>>...

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>>>>>What would have happened if the Church had not prosecuted or censured
>>>>>Galileo?  Would Newton have had the same incentive to develop his
>>>>>comprehensive Copernican explanation of the Universe?  Would society
>>>>>have been destabilized by lack of faith in the Church and conventional
>>>>>social order?

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>>>>>What implications does this example have for modern Church criticisms
>>>>>of scientific theories such as Evolution and the Big Bang?  Does the
>>>>>Church, or other social institutions have some role in integating
>>>>>scientific concepts into the broader social perspective?  Was Galileo
>>>>>a kind of idiot-savant, not understanding how to fully develop his own
>>>>>ideas?  Is this a common problem among scientists in general, who are
>>>>>not holistic thinkers, however skilled they may be in their own
>>>>>speciality?

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>>>>"Though I thought they [Galileo's views on the solar system] were
>>>>based on very certain and evident proofs, I would not wish, for
>>>>anything in the world, to maintain them against the authority of the
>>>>Church." - Rene Descartes.

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>>>>Descartes fled to the Protestant part of Europe after Galileo's trial.- Hide quoted text -

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>>>>- Show quoted text -

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>>> Nevertheless, the scientific method is a Christian concept, and was
>>> nurtured systematically by the Church.  The notion that scientists
>>> should always go unchallenged is not necessarily a constructive one.
>>> The one extreme is Church suppression.  The other is academic self-
>>> indulgence and incompetence.  There may be a happy medium that should
>>> be striven for.

>

>> You apparently have no idea how science works.  The point of science is
>> to look for the truth which is, of course, testable. Scientists test
>> things that other scientists do. They challenge each other all the time
>> both for professional and ego reasons.

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>> Openness gets you truth.  The church is not interested in that.- Hide quoted text -

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>> - Show quoted text -

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> I know exactly how science works, Doug.  Professional bureaucrats play
> political games to drum anyone out of the field who threatens their
> own position.   Scientists lie systematically to advance their own
> agenda at the expense of their opponents, and don't give a damn about
> anything except their own power.   Professional science is exclusively
> concerned with power.  Truth is a matter of total indifference to the
> professional scientific community.- Hide quoted text -
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> - Show quoted text -