Re: We Robot
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Re: We Robot         

Group: alt.philosophy · Group Profile
Author: Ed
Date: Sep 10, 2008 13:09

On Sep 10, 10:34 am, someone2 btinternet.com> wrote:
> Daniel Dennet in 'What RobotMary Knows' made the claim that:
>
> 'If materialism is true, it should be possible (“in principle!”) to
> build a material thing–call it a robot brain–that does what a brain
> does, and hence instantiates the same theory of experience that we
> do.' [2]
>
> Certainly such ideas have been in circulation for a while. A popular
> science fiction film called the Terminator used the cinematic device
> of depicting a first person perspective for a robot from the future to
> suggest what it would be like to be the robot. This simple cinematic
> depiction illustrating it isn't simply a linguistic issue [1].
>
> What this paper aims to do, is highlight some general problems with
> accounts that suggest that it might be like something to be a
> mechanism explainable by our current understanding of physics.
>
> For the purposes of this discussion, if something is referred to as
> consciously experiencing is will mean that it is like something to be
> that thing. Such that it could be said that the cinematic device used
> in the Terminator movie for the robot suggested that it was
> consciously experiencing.
> To help with this, we shall make use of a thought experiment robot. As
> Dennet pointed out "thinking in terms of robots is a useful exercise,
> since it removes the excuse that we don't yet know enough about brains
> to say just what is going on that might be relevant, permitting a sort
> of woolly romanticism about the mysterious powers of brains to cloud
> our judgement".
>
> So to avoid any sort of woolly romanticism about what we know, and
> about the mysterious powers of any mechanism to cloud our judgement,
> let us avoid the assertion that we could build a robot brain that does
> what a brain does. Let us base our thought experiments around
> technology that we have, such that we can be clear about the issues we
> are discussing. Let us consider our robot have an artificial neural
> network [6] as robot brain, which can be thought of as having billions
> of times more nodes than an average human being has neurons, and which
> could easily pass the Turing Test, and that if its external physical
> appearance was as a human, that it could pass as one without internal
> investigation. It can be known to perform certain mathematical
> functions that it is doubted that the human brain performs, though
> simply because it is not asserted that it does what a brain does, does
> not require the assertion that it doesn't. We can consider the
> operation of the robot and the robot brain to be explainable given our
> current understanding of physics.
> So let us consider whether the robot brain in the thought experiment
> would be consciously experiencing.
>
> To help us investigate we shall construct potential stories which fall
> with a general category that assumes that something that does
> consciously experience could have its behaviour described in terms of
> the same laws of physics that would describe the behaviour of
> something that doesn't. It should be highlighted that the theories put
> forward here aren't individually important. They are for illustration
> only. There are potentially billions of similar folk stories that
> could have been put forward within the general catergory mentioned
> above. Any of these could be substituted for the ones mentioned here,
> without altering the point which is made when we consider the
> implications of the folk stories from the general category below.
>
> Firstly let us consider a school of thought that asserts that what we
> have defined as consciously experiencing is an identity of mechanism
> function. They assert that regardless of the operation of the
> mechanism to produce this function, if the function was achieved, the
> mechanism would be consciously experiencing. They assert that as the
> robot must be behaviourally equivalent to a human to pass the test,
> the functions governing the behaviour of the robot must be equivalent
> to human brain functions. As such they assert that the robot brain
> would be consciously experiencing, as the functioning of it would be
> equivalent to functioning which has such an identity. This will be
> referred to as Theory A.
>
> Secondly let us consider a school of thought that asserts that what we
> have defined as consciously experiencing is an identity of mechanism
> function. They assert that regardless of the operation of the
> mechanism to produce this function, if the function was achieved, the
> mechanism would be consciously experiencing. They suspects that the
> processing in the robot brain functions in a different way in order to
> get the same behavioural outcome as a human brain. As such they don't
> regard the two to be functionally equivalent. As such they suggest
> that the robot would not have a first person perspective. Let us refer
> to this functionalist theory, Theory B.
>
> The third school of thought offers a suggestion along the lines
> suggested by Christof Koch and Francis Crick, that there must be a
> physical difference between neurones that contribute towards the
> conscious experience and those that don't. Furthermore they go onto
> suggest that there must be a physical difference between neurons that
> contribute towards phenomenal properties which are publicly labelled
> as auditory, and those which are publicly labelled as visual. They
> suggest that due to the undifferentiated nature of the nodes within
> the artificial neural network, that while there the robot brain might
> be consciously experience, the experience would likely consist of
> variations of a single phenomenal property, such as fluctuations of
> the colour green for example. Let us refer to this as Theory C.
>
> The fourth school of thought, suggests that the conscious experience
> of humans is due to fluctuations in a magnetic field in the brain,
> which they hold to be responsible for the seemingly spontaneous neural
> firings. Since the architecture is not the same in the robot, and its
> functioning is not influenced by fluctuations in a unifying magnetic
> field, they suggest that the robot could not be consciously
> experiencing.  Let us refer to this as Theory D.
>
> When attempting to distinguish scientifically between the claims of
> these different theories within the category by experimentation on the
> robot, we find that the null hypothesis for the suggested phenomenal
> identity of each, yields no expected behavioural difference. It must
> clearly be noted, that in question is the difference in expected
> behaviour whether reality was as suggested by the theory with regards
> to the robot's phenomenal experiences or not, it is clearly not a
> question of if the suggested reality were assumed to be true, would
> the theory expect that there would need to be a difference in the
> robot for there not to be the phenomenal reality suggested for it.
>
> At this point, while it might seem like a divergence, it would seem an
> apt time to investigate a comment Dennet made in his RobotMary paper.
> Dennet commented regarding a counter by Robinson to his comments on
> Jackson's Mary thought experiment [5]:
>
> Robinson (1993) also claims that I beg the question by not honoring a
> distinction he declares to exist between knowing “what one would say
> and how one would react” and knowing “what it is like.” If there is
> such a distinction, it has not yet been articulated and defended, by
> Robinson or anybody else, so far as I know. If Mary knows everything
> about what she would say and how she would react, it is far from clear
> that she wouldn’t know what it would be like. [2]
>
> Regarding our robot, the theorists putting forward theories A to D can
> be considered as knowing what it would say and how it would react.
> That doesn't distinguish between the four folk theories mentioned
> above. Therefore it doesn't tell them whether the robot brain would be
> consciously experiencing or not, much less specifically what the
> conscious experience would be like. The distinction mentioned by
> Robinson is quite clear, as illustrated.
>
> Though returning to the discussion of the four folk theories, and the
> general category that they represent. Any theories within this general
> category should acknowledge themselves as folk metaphysical theories,
> and no attempts to suggest any scientific evidence for any one theory
> within the category should be made given no expected difference in
> behaviour for the null hypothesis to their suggested phenomenal
> reality.
>
> Proponents of stories such as those put forward in Theory A and Theory
> B might suggest that as consciously experiencing is an identity of
> mechanism function it is incorrect to even conceptually separate the
> conscious experience from the functioning. They may feel that such a
> counter excuses them from having to acknowledge the point made.
> Seemingly using this very approach, it is reported Dennet once wrote,
> regarding philosophical zombies:
>
> Supposing that by an act of stipulative imagination you can remove
> consciousness while leaving all cognitive systems intact — a quite
> standard but entirely bogus feat of imagination — is like supposing
> that by an act of stipulative imagination, you can remove health while
> leaving all bodily functions and powers intact. … Health isn’t that
> sort of thing, and neither is consciousness. [3]
> Though quite how such an approach would hold regarding the robot isn't
> clear, since the question of whether it is consciously experiencing or
> not clearly exists.
>
> There might be some that would attempt to stipulate through assertion
> that the robot we have been considering would be consciously
> experiencing, and attempt to make a similar defence against
> considerations that the robot might not be consciously experiencing,
> as Dennet did in the zombie discussion. Though there is a difference.
> In Dennet's application, rejection of the consideration of the null
> hypothesis of if we didn't have a first person perspective can be
> based upon the rejection of the null hypothesis through experience.
> The same cannot be said of the robot. It can be argued that the
> contemplation of whether another human being has consciousness, is the
> same as the contemplation of whether a robot has consciousness. Though
> it can be suggested that you would have no objective reason to
> consider the null hypothesis for another human being, while rejecting
> it for yourself. The same cannot be said for the robot.
>
> To illustrate, let us consider an objection that could be made to the
> suggestions of those proposing Theory A, by those proposing Theory D.
> They point out that their story convolutes processing and function,
> hiding an assumption that the processing has a particular
> representation regardless of the context it takes place in.
> Furthermore to have the first person perspective of a tree,
> information held discretely in the nodes of the neural network in
> question would be required simultaneously. Yet the processing results
> of the artificial neural network responsible for response to inputs,
> could be maintained even if each individual node were separated by
> miles, and the nodal firings were communicated by laser to the other
> nodes within the system. Nor would it affect the processing results if
> nodes from a different system were interspersed spatially in between
> the nodes of the distributed robot brain. Nor if each node were a pod
> containing a with a person inside. These pod people working in a
> strictly need to know basis. Each pod person being taught a different
> code language, and having a manual in that language containing
> information required for the calculations to be performed upon the
> inputs messages received by the pod, and a list of codes which when
> typed in to the output computer, along with the results, would provide
> the information for which pods should receive the outgoing laser
> communications.
>
> They then consider an array of 100 pods, each having information
> regarding a single pixel in a 10 x 10 picture communicated to it by a
> laser firing, and also information of a single pixel in a different 10
> x 10 picture in the manual. They suggest that without a physical means
> to access the information regarding the pixel in the second picture in
> the manual, the information must be regarded as inaccessible. As such,
> if a story required access to such information from 10 separate pods
> at the same time, then without access to such information, the story
> must be false.
>
> They then consider that at any one point in time, there would be no
> means of distinguishing which pods belonged to which system, without
> access to the node firing codes stored within the manuals within the
> pods. They then question why information for the first person
> perspective would originate from purely one of the systems.
> Furthermore they suggest that without accessibility to information
> within the pods, the accessible processing would change, if where the
> processing took place changed. Any suggestions that the over all
> processing would be derivable from any accessible processing would
> open up to questioning where it was suggested that the processing for
> these reactive derivations took place.
>
> Furthermore they consider a pod which communicated by light to two
> separate pods each of which were a light year away in opposite
> directions. Certain subsequent processing which was going on in
> parallel was separated by two light years of distance, yet the
> information for the first person perspective would be required
> simultaneously. Which they suggest further illustrates the
> implausibility of the story, requiring either faster than light
> communication of information, or some recording of past events, such
> that the first person perspective can be realised after the event.
> Which serves to illustrate that there are objective reasons for
> considering that reality were indeed a physicalist one, that there
> wouldn't be a consciousness experiencing an overview of a particular
> functional perspective of what the activity of some of the pods
> potentially represented. Though the representation issue, which is
> hinted at here, is beyond the scope of this paper.
>
> Conclusion:
>
> Claims of the folk stories, that fall within the category of assuming
> that something that does consciously experience could have its
> behaviour described in terms of the same laws of physics that would
> describe the behaviour of something that doesn't, may differ with
> regards to suggestions of consciousness, yet not in behavioural
> expectations. So it is evident that if the assumption of the category
> was correct, that there would be no scientific means to distinguish
> between the folk stories based upon what is known of the brain such as
> stories A, B and D. Though stories such as C which make an assumption
> additional to the category assumption about the operation of the brain
> could have their additional assumption proved to be wrong. Therefore
> any folk stories within this category, if they are to avoid fallacious
> dogmatic "reasoning", must hold there to be an epistomological
> distinction between the operation of the mechanism and whether it is
> consciously experiencing, as this would be implicit to the category to
> which the folk story belongs.
>
> This leaves the potential assertion that this doesn't reflect a
> distinction in reality between certain operations and consciously
> experiencing, it is simply a limit of our potential knowledge of
> reality.
> Though due to the inability to distinguish between the folk stories
> within the category, any claims by stories within the category about
> whether the robot would be consciously experiencing or not can only be
> assertions. Any assertion that it is consciously experiencing would
> also be an admission that the story suggests something that is
> consciously experiencing behaves as it would be expected without the
> assertion, and if the reality, which would be beyond our potential
> knowledge, were that it wasn't. In other words, something that
> consciously experiences behaves as it would be expected to if it
> didn't. Thus highlighting the categories suggestion that consciously
> experiencing has no influence on behaviour, thus there being no
> potential for scientific evidence of an influence, and being able to
> distinguish between the stories within the category.
>
> Though if the phenomenal reality does not influence behaviour as the
> group assumption suggests, then why are we even considering whether a
> robot might have a first person perspective as depicted in the
> Terminator movie? We know the existence of the phenomenal reality
> through experience of it, and mentioning it at all is evidence that
> the existence of such a reality is influencing our behaviour, else it
> would require a coincidence that the phenomenal reality expressed in
> behaviour existed (the behaviour being uninfluenced by its existence),
> which makes the option implausible.
>
> References
> [1] Chalmers, D, Eliminative Materialism and the Propositional
> Attitudes,  Journal of Philosophy, 78, no. 2. Feb., 1981, 23 pages
> [2] Dennet, D, What RobotMary Knows,http://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/papers/RoboMaryfinal.htm
> [3] Kirk, R, Zombies,http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/zombies/
> [4] Koch, C & Crick, C,     Consciousness, neural basis of,http://www.klab.caltech.edu/~koch/Elsevier-NCC.html
> [5] Jackson, F, Epiphenomenal Qualia,http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/epiphenomenal_qualia.html
> [6] Stergiou, C and Siganos, D,   Neural Networks,http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~nd/surprise_96/journal/vol4/cs11/report.html

In all such discussions I am struck by the absence of clarity in the
phrase “consciously experiencing”. Other brain functions seem
clearer; ideas like “remembering” or “recognizing” or even “deciding”
seem relatively amenable to definition. “Consciously experiencing” on
the other hand never seems to get defined.

What distinguishes “consciously experiencing” from “experiencing”?
Suppose I’m concentrating really hard on a math problem while eating a
candy. After I solve the problem I notice the aftertaste of the candy
in my mouth. Did I “consciously experience” the taste of the candy?
When? There’s no question that the taste buds were stimulated,
signals were sent to the brain etc, I just didn’t notice at the time.

Have you ever had the experience of walking down the street and
suddenly stopping and turning back because you realize you saw
something that caught your interest but you took several steps before
you realized it? When you saw it did you “consciously experience”
it? You couldn’t “consciously experience” it later when you stop, by
that time it’s not an experience, it’s a memory of an experience. On
the other hand it makes a mockery of the word “consciously” to say you
“consciously experienced” it when you saw it but you weren’t conscious
of it at that time.

Examples like this make me believe that I, at least, do not know what
“consciously experiencing” actually involves.
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