> On 11 jul, 13:54, Leon Hoeneveld wrote:

>> The difference between a norm and a value was described to me with an
>> example.
>>
>> You might have the value to have repect. The norm is then that you
>> *must* have respect.
>>
>> Consider however the following process:
>>
>> Vision=> Behaviour=> Result
>>
>> A norm tries to do something about the behaviour. Thou shalt not...
>> A value is looking at results an rejecting some results.
>>
>> If you just consider the values and look for shared values, you don't
>> have control over the results. It's rather naive to be disappointed
>> about some result or to be without understanding of different results.
>> The problem then is too much freedom.
>>
>> If you want to control the results with norms the problem is that
>> altough people show specific behaviour, the results are still not what
>> was expected. The problem is that doing a job with motviation has
>> different results from doing a job without motivation. the problem then
>> is too little freedom.
>>
>> Both approaches, you migth recognize political approaches in them, fail
>> because the real reason for specific result lies with the vision of people.
>>
>> What would be the best vision to teach our children. Should one be
>> optimistic, pessimistic, with caution, with courage?
>>
>> I think the best approach is to judge any situation by the possibilities
>> it has, not judging it on right or wrong (regarding norms) and also not
>> waiting for results. One doesn't have to be opportunitstic. To be
>> opportunistic will lead to al kinds of reactions, giving less
>> possibilities, less freedom.
>>
>> Anyone should regard the possibilities and choose for the amount of
>> freedom a choice gives you.
>>
>> A frog in warm water will not leave the kettle although the heat is
>> increasing. As long as the heat gradually increases. People with a vison
>> that gives less possibilities, that isn't leading to the results one
>> wants, and also gives a problem with the consiousness, will remain to
>> have that vison, making it hard to get a better world.
>>
>> Is the vision right to "punish" those with a wrong vision? What
>> punishment should that be? Some visons are really dangerous. How should
>> one find out?

> $st>;-)-< @re>-(x:()
> http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=cpP8SNFxWq0