So, approximately "twenty percent" of the overall expenses will
continue to go for paperwork, forms, claims, bureaucracy--the usual
disgusting mickey mousean nonsense.

As automobile plants within the USA are shutdown, amongst the major
causes is reportedly the (in comparison disproportionate) medical
burden on each new GM & Ford assembled in USA car.

I see the morning news that Chrysler is having a domestic car sales
problem too.

Hey, I know "national socialized medicine" is very flawed phenomenon
too:

I'm hopefully no political-economic demagogue: This is supposed to be
about philosophy.

To me, the USA looks to be in scary decline, and I blame Democrats &
Republicans for it, though imho the Republicans have lately been
decidedly incompetent.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1106/p16s01-cogn.html

"Robert Cohen" msn.com> wrote in message
news:1162823793.177681.107900@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Have you considered the possibility that americans design and make lousy
cars, aren't that good at managing companies and change, and that it's
nothing to do with health care?

Well, it's a thought. Do you know of any US car maker that can produce
anything of the same quality of a Ferarri, Lexus, or a Mercedes for the
price?

Workers in Germany, Italy, Korea, and Japan aren't paid any less than US
workers overall you know.

Depends.

When Democrats figure out that the corp. media is controlled by drug
companies and hype culture wars and non issues every chance they can
get, then we'll get universal health care.

Bret Cahill

Robert Cohen wrote:

Sounds like there is more going on than politicians here. There is a
fast developing world and massive amounts of new foriegn competitors.
After WWII America was artificially boosted into unknown before riches
and productivity, now we have a hang over as the rest of the world
regains itself?

Q & A

Robt: What is the reality here?

Cohen: I introduced a typical CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR article slanted
toward single-payer.

Robt: So?

Cohen: Well, that's what I do: I'll give my opinion, and try to not be
overly dogmatic, especially since they wanted to throw me out of here
for not being relevant to philosophy.

Robt: And?

Cohen: I'm being kicked in the balls about Mercedes vs Cadillac.

Robt: Just go thru the anti-American
rabbit-punches, and come back with uppercuts to bore 'em to futility.

RobtCohen thus now responds:

It's common wis-dumb here in the USA that our
United Auto Workers' wages, health, lay-off, and pension benefits are
tres cher especially in relation to Mexico & Brazil of course.

With Sweden, Japan & Germany the health and other benefits
diffrentiations are not so clearcut/apparent.

"Robert Cohen" msn.com> wrote in message
news:1162847054.161281.133490@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Okay: Touche

I think you win the de-bait between ye & me at least.

But I'll hereby defend the USA, because I'm a semi-world traveler, and
was never happier as when we got back home.

I was in Europe--Paris, Naples, and London--a couple of years ago for a
couple of long weeks.

I was not favorably impressed by much of what I saw.

The prices over there do seem too high.

I feel fortunate 7/24 that my grandparents exited from elsewhere
(Warsaw, Odessa).

Your constructive criticisms, however, are welcome by me.

That rioting in Paris is nothing to be proud about b-t-w.

Many/most of the people here are seemingly fed-up with being the
"world's policeman," perhaps as much as the World is seemingly fed-up
with us today.

The election tomorrow may offer a clue as to the U.S. future, though
(imho) it will probably be another ambiguous message because nobody
could say that our representative democracy
is as nice as a picturesque Swiss chocolate, clock, and toy shop.

Santimvah wrote:

Can you say "Unions"? I think you can...

"Robert Cohen" msn.com> wrote in message
news:1162823793.177681.107900@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

"Robert Cohen" msn.com> wrote in message
news:1162865446.545618.324300@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Home is where the heart is. No one's home is perfect, but that is not what
is important.

An Afghanistan political refugee in australia for many years returned home
and became a regional governor or something, and was recently killed in
suicide bombing there. I doubt he ever considered the differences in health
systems or costs between the two countries, or thought they were that
important in the big scheme of *his* life and purpose for breathing.

Everyone has to play the cards they are delt. Your parents placed you in
America, what you do with that hand is up to you.

re: labor unions, good or bad or what?

Yes to all the above.

Robt: They kill self-initiative of workers.

Cohen: They protect labor from abuse/exploitation.

Robt: They chase factories away to China

Cohen: Whom is gonna buy the goods 'n stuff that drive the economy when
the wages & benefits are too low?

Robt: The unions are so greedy

Cohen: Greed is good < irony intended>

Robt: America is constitutionally designed for liberrtarianism,
individualism, maximal freedom

Cohen: The worker will never get equity back from
the historical misery of exploitation & quasi-feudalism

Robt: go to helle, socialist

Cohen: eat shite, bossman

Russ Rose wrote: