> Ur welcome, Dr J. W.
>
> There was a couple of mistakes in my commentary, like HoChi Minh wasn't a
> comunist/socialist when he asked for USA assistance post WW2 when fighting
> the French. He was.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> BTW
>
> Did you notice that the whole thing started with a Peace Accord in Geneva in
> 1954, and ended with a Peace Accord in Paris in 1973?
>
> Maybe the USA just didn't like the Swiss? :-)
>
> The Paris Peace Accords were signed on January 27, 1973 by the governments
> of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam), the Republic of
> Vietnam (South Vietnam), and the United States, as well as the Provisional
> Revolutionary Government (PRG) that represented indigenous South Vietnamese
> revolutionaries. The intent was to establish peace in Vietnam and an end to
> the Vietnam Conflict. The accords ended direct U.S. military involvement and
> temporarily ended the fighting between north and south. The negotiations
> that led to the accord had begun in 1968 and had been subject to various
> lengthy delays. The main negotiators of the agreement were United States
> National Security Advisor Dr. Henry Kissinger and Vietnamese politburo
> member Le Duc Tho; the two men were awarded the 1973 Nobel Peace Prize for
> their efforts, although Tho refused to accept it.
>
> [ Kissinger a 'peaceful man' worthy of an award for his advice and
> choices? ]
>
> The document began with the statement that "the United States and all other
> countries respect the independence, sovereignty, unity, and territorial
> integrity of Vietnam as recognized by the 1954 Geneva Agreements on
> Vietnam."
>
> [ ALL MY LIFE'S A CIRCLE - FROM 1954 TO 1973 ..... ]
>
> PS
>
> Aftermath - The War Goes On
>
> Numerous violations of the Paris Peace Accords were committed by BOTH sides.
> The North Vietnamese and the Provisional Revolutionary Government of South
> Viet Nam continued their attempt to overthrow President Thieu in South Viet
> Nam and remove the U.S. supported government. Thieu soon resigned, accusing
> the U.S. of betrayal.
>
> In a TV and radio address before his resignation, President Nguyen Van Thieu
> said his forces had failed to stop the advance of the North Vietnamese
> because of a lack of funds promised to him by the Americans. The funds had
> been promised by Henry Kissinger acting on behalf of President Nixon, but
> the Congress, under intense pressure from public opinion, failed to
> appropriate the funds. By the time the end came on April 30, 1975, Nixon had
> been driven from office.
>
> In a scathing attack on the US, Thieu suggested that Kissinger had tricked
> him into signing the Paris peace agreement two years before, promising
> military aid which then failed to materialize.
>
> "At the time of the peace agreement the United States agreed to replace
> equipment on a one-by-one basis. But the United States did not keep its
> word. Is an American's word reliable these days? The United States did not
> keep its promise to help us fight for freedom and it was in the same fight
> that the United States lost 50,000 of its young men."[2]
>
> The North Vietnamese entered Saigon on April 30TH 1975
>
> THE END
>
>
> "Dr. James West, Ph.D."
nobull.com> wrote in message
> news:L_idnXXJz4WjMYDVnZ2dnUVZ_rHinZ2d@toastnet...
> >>Nice history...I read all of it...thanks.
>>;-)
>>
>>Sean wrote:
>>
>>
>>>For Billzz and others
>>>
>>>excerpts - from wiki - fwiw [ Don't believe it? Then do more research and
>>>cross check references on wiki ]
>>>The Geneva Conference (May 8 - July 21, 1954) was a conference between
>>>many countries that agreed to end hostilities and restore peace in French
>>>Indochina and Vietnam. It produced a set of treaties known as the Geneva
>>>Accords, signed on behalf of France by Pierre Mendès-France and of the
>>>Democratic Republic of Vietnam by Pham Van Dong.
>>>
>>>This war was significant in that it demonstrated that a western colonial
>>>power could be defeated by an indigenous revolutionary force; the French
>>>previously pacified a similar uprising in the Madagascar colony in March,
>>>1947.
>>>
>>>On April 27, 1954, the Conference produced a declaration which supported
>>>the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Indochina thereby granting
>>>it independence from France. In addition, the Conference declaration
>>>agreed upon the cessation of hostilities and foreign involvement (or
>>>troops) in internal Indochina affairs. Northern and southern zones were
>>>drawn into which opposing troops were to withdraw, to facilitate the
>>>cessation of hostilities between the Vietnamese forces and those that had
>>>supported the French. The Viet Minh, having advanced to the far south
>>>while fighting the French, retreated from these positions to north of the
>>>ceasfire line, awaiting unification on the basis of internationally
>>>supervised free elections to be held in July 1956[2].
>>>
>>>An International Control Commission was set up to oversee the
>>>implementation of the Geneva Accords, but it was basically powerless to
>>>ensure compliance. It was to consist of India, Canada, and Poland.
>>>The agreement was between Cambodia, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam,
>>>France, Laos, the People's Republic of China, the State of Vietnam, the
>>>Soviet Union, and the United Kingdom. The United States *REFUSED* to
>>>participate in the conference or recognize the accords.
>>>
>>>Communist forces had been instrumental in the defeat of the French;
>>>
>>>**the ideology of communism and nationalism were closely linked.**
>>>
>>>Many viewed the South Vietnamese leadership as a French colonial, and
>>>later, an American *PUPPET* regime. Ho Chi Minh's Democratic Republic of
>>>Vietnam looked forward fairly comfortably to being elected in the
>>>forthcoming DEMOCRATIC elections.
>>>
>>>The U.S. replaced the French as a political backup for Ngo Dinh Diem,
>>>then President of the State of Vietnam, and he asserted his power in the
>>>south. A referendum rigged by his brother Ngo Dinh Nhu saw Diem gain 98%%
>>>of the vote, with 133%% in Saigon. American advisors had suggested that he
>>>win by a lesser margin since it was felt that he would be able to win any
>>>fair poll against Emperor Bao Dai. Diem refused to hold the national
>>>elections, noting that the State of Vietnam never signed the Geneva
>>>Accords and went about attempting to crush all remnant of communist
>>>opposition. The prospect of democratic elections dwindling away led South
>>>Vietnamese who opposed Diem to form the Communist National Liberation
>>>Front[citation needed], better known as the Vietcong, which eventually
>>>launched guerrilla attacks against the RVN government and desired the
>>>reunification of Vietnam under Communist rule. The Vi?t C?ng were
>>>supported by the Vietnam People's Army (VPA) of the North.
>>>
>>>Both sides violated multiple provisions of the Accords, with both
>>>communists and anti-communists engaging in military buildups contrary to
>>>the accords.
>>>
>>>Guerrilla activity in the South escalated, while U.S. military advisors
>>>continued to support the Army of the Republic of Vietnam, which was
>>>created as a replacement for the Vietnamese National Army. The result was
>>>the Second Indochina War, more commonly known as the Vietnam War.
>>>
>>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conference_%%281954%%29
>>>
>>>
>>>NEXT
>>>
>>>In 1950, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the People's Republic of
>>>China (PRC) recognized each other diplomatically. The Soviet Union
>>>quickly followed suit. U.S. President Harry S. Truman countered by
>>>recognizing the French puppet government of Vietnam.
>>>
>>>Washington, seemingly ignorant of the long historical antipathy between
>>>Vietnam and China, feared that Hanoi was a pawn of the PRC and, by
>>>extension, Moscow.[7] As historian and former Hanoi foreign minister Luu
>>>Doan Huynh has commented, "Vietnam a part of the Chinese expansionist
>>>game in Asia? For anyone who knows the history of Indochina, this is
>>>incomprehensible."[7]
>>>
>>>In 1950, the U.S. Military Assistance and Advisory Group (MAAG) arrived
>>>to screen French requests for aid, advise on strategy, and train
>>>Vietnamese soldiers.[9] By 1954, the U.S. had supplied 300,000 small arms
>>>and spent one billion dollars in support of the French military effort.
>>>The Eisenhower administration was shouldering 80 percent of the cost of
>>>the war.[10] The Viet Minh received crucial support from the Soviet Union
>>>and the PRC. Chinese support in the Border Campaign of 1950 allowed
>>>supplies to come from China into Vietnam. Throughout the conflict, U.S.
>>>intelligence estimates remained skeptical of French chances of
>>>success.[11]
>>>
>>>At the Geneva Conference the French negotiated a ceasefire agreement with
>>>the Viet Minh. **INDEPENDENCE** was granted to Cambodia, Laos and
>>>Vietnam.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>IN 1954 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>The US kept fighting that AGREEMENT until 1975 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>As a U.S. Army study noted, France lost the war primarily because it
>>>"neglected to cultivate the loyalty and support of the Vietnamese
>>>people."[12] More than 400,000 civilians and soldiers had died during the
>>>nine year conflict.
>>>
>>>------------------------
>>>
>>>As dictated by the Geneva Conference of 1954, the partition of Vietnam
>>>was meant to be only temporary, pending national elections on July 20,
>>>1956. Much as in Korea, the agreement stipulated that the two military
>>>zones were to be separated by a temporary demarcation line (known as the
>>>Demilitarized Zone or DMZ). The United States, alone among the great
>>>powers, refused to sign the Geneva agreement.[16] The president of South
>>>Vietnam, Ngo Dinh Diem, declined to hold elections. This called into
>>>question the United States' commitment to democracy in the region, but
>>>also raised questions about the legitimacy of any election held in the
>>>communist-run North. President Dwight D. Eisenhower expressed U.S. fears
>>>when he wrote that, in 1954, "80 per cent of the population would have
>>>voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh" over Emperor Bao Dai.[
>>>
>>>THE MAJOR ERROR WAS THIS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE DOMINO THEORY
>>>The cornerstone of U.S. policy was the Domino Theory. This argued that if
>>>South Vietnam fell to communist forces, then all of South East Asia would
>>>follow. Popularized by the Eisenhower Administration,[19] some argued
>>>that if communism spread unchecked, it would follow them home by first
>>>reaching Hawaii and follow to the West Coast of the United States. It was
>>>better, therefore, to fight communism in Asia, rather than on American
>>>soil.[20]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>IOW PSYCHOTIC DELUDED INSANTITY - AND HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF.
>>>-----------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>CON'T.....
>>>Rule
>>> Main article: 1955 South Vietnamese election
>>>Ngo Dinh Diem was chosen by the U.S. to lead South Vietnam. A devout
>>>Roman Catholic, he was fervently anti-communist and was "untainted" by
>>>any connection to the French. He was one of the few prominent Vietnamese
>>>nationalists who could claim both attributes. Historian Luu Doan Huynh
>>>notes, however, that "Diem represented narrow and extremist nationalism
>>>coupled with autocracy and nepotism."[21]
>>>
>>>The new American patrons were almost completely ignorant of Vietnamese
>>>culture. They knew little of the language or long history of the
>>>country.[7] There was a tendency to assign American motives to Vietnamese
>>>actions, and Diem warned that it was an illusion to believe that blindly
>>>copying Western methods would solve Vietnamese problems.[7]
>>>
>>>In April and June 1955, Diem (against U.S. advice) cleared the decks of
>>>any political opposition by launching military operations against the Cao
>>>Dai religious sect, the Buddhist Hoa Hao, and the Binh Xuyen organized
>>>crime group (which was allied with members of the secret police and some
>>>military elements). Diem accused these groups of harboring Communist
>>>agents. As broad-based opposition to his harsh tactics mounted, Diem
>>>increasingly sought to blame the communists.[22]
>>>
>>>Beginning in the summer of 1955, he launched the "Denounce the
>>>Communists" campaign, during which communists and other anti-government
>>>elements were arrested, imprisoned, tortured, or executed. Opponents were
>>>labeled Viet Cong by the regime to degrade their nationalist credentials.
>>>During this period refugees moved across the demarcation line in both
>>>directions. Around 52,000 Vietnamese civilians moved from south to north.
>>>However a staggering 450,000 people fled north Vietnam to the south, in
>>>aircraft and ships provided by France and the U.S.[23] CIA propaganda
>>>efforts increased the outflow with slogans such as "the Virgin Mary is
>>>going South." The northern refugees were meant to give Diem a strong
>>>anti-communist constituency.[24]
>>>
>>>In a referendum on the future of the monarchy, Diem rigged the poll
>>>supervised by his brother Ngo Dinh Nhu and received "98.2 percent" of the
>>>vote. His American advisers had recommended a more modest winning margin
>>>of "60 to 70 percent." Diem, however, viewed the election as a test of
>>>authority.[25] On October 26, 1955, Diem declared the new Republic of
>>>Vietnam, with himself as president.[26] The Republic of Vietnam was
>>>created largely because of the Eisenhower administration's desire for an
>>>anti-communist state in the region.[27] Colonel Edward Lansdale, a CIA
>>>officer, became an important advisor to the new president.
>>>
>>>As a wealthy Catholic, Diem was viewed by many ordinary Vietnamese as
>>>part of the old elite who had helped the French rule Vietnam. The
>>>majority of Vietnamese people were Buddhist, so his attack on the
>>>Buddhist community served only to deepen mistrust. Diem's human rights
>>>abuses increasingly alienated the population.
>>>
>>>-----------------------
>>>
>>>ON THE SIDELINES - THIS IS WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN STH VIETNAM HERE AND
>>>THERE.
>>>
>>>When America began pushing for Ngo Dinh Diem to run South Vietnam the
>>>most powerful groups to concern them were the Cao Dai, Binh Xuyen and the
>>>Hoa Hao, which had formed a small private army under General Ba Cut.
>>>O.S.S. Colonel Edward Lansdale used bribery with CIA funds to split the
>>>Hoa Hao and in 1956 General Duong Van Minh crushed the Hoa Hao and had
>>>General Ba Cut beheaded in public. This was the end of the Hoa Hao as an
>>>armed group, some later joining the Viet Cong in opposition to the Diem
>>>regime. After the war, the Hoa Hao remained.
>>>
>>>AND
>>>
>>>Th? was born in Tây Ninh Province and raised in the Cao Dà i religion. He
>>>has been trained in military officer school by the Japanese Kempeitai
>>>when Japan began using Cao DÃ i paramilitary troops. By 1945 he was an
>>>officer in the Cao DÃ i militia.
>>>
>>>In June 1951, Th? broke from the Cao DÃ i hierarchy and took about two
>>>thousand troops with him to form his own militia, the Lien Minh, devoted
>>>to combating both the French and the Viet Minh. Th?'s father and one of
>>>his brothers formed their own military group in the Lien Minh and were
>>>later killed by Viet Minh in combat.
>>>
>>>Th?'s forces were implicated in a series of terrorist bombings in Saigon
>>>from 1951 to 1953-which were blamed on Communists at the time-and may
>>>also have been responsible for the assassination of the French General
>>>Chanson at Sadec in 1951.
>>>
>>>In 1954, United States military advisor Edward Lansdale, charged with
>>>propping up the regime of Ngô Dình Di?m, negotiated with Th? to use his
>>>militia to back up Diem and the ARVN. On February 13, 1955, Th?'s troops
>>>were officially integrated into the South Vietnamese army, where he
>>>assumed the rank of general. He led the Lien Minh on a triumphal march
>>>into Saigon.
>>>
>>>Through Lansdale, the U.S. continued to fund Th? and other Caodaist
>>>groups. However, as the South Vietnamese government faltered, many of the
>>>militia leaders declared their open opposition to Di?m and began an
>>>attempted coup. Th?'s loyalties at this point were unclear, and it was
>>>also unclear whether the U.S. intended to support Di?m against the
>>>rebels; some said that Th? might be a realistic replacement for Di?m.
>>>However, when the Lien Minh entered Saigon again it appeared to be in
>>>response to Lansdale's last-minute call for them to protect Di?m.
>>>
>>>On May 3, 1955, while driving in an open vehicle, Th? was shot in the
>>>back of the head by a sniper. The murder was unsolved, with some blaming
>>>the French (who had vowed to kill Th? for years) and others blaming the
>>>South Vietnamese government.
>>>
>>>AND
>>>
>>>Pacific War
>>>
>>>The Binh Xuyen river pirates first emerged in the early 1920s in the
>>>marshes and canals along the southern fringes of Saigon-Cholon. They were
>>>a loosely organized coalition of pirate gangs, about two hundred to three
>>>hundred strong and early history of the Binh Xuyen was an interminable
>>>cycle of kidnapping, piracy, pursuit, and occasionally imprisonment. In
>>>September 24, 1945, it organized the massacre of 150 French and Eurasian
>>>civilians, including children, in the suburb of Saigon.
>>>
>>>While this decision would have been of little consequence in Tonkin or
>>>central Vietnam, where the Communist-dominated Viet Minh was strong
>>>enough to stand alone, in Cochin China the Binh Xuyen support was
>>>crucial. After launching an abortive revolt in 1940, the Cochin division
>>>of the Indochina Communist party had been weakened by mass arrests and
>>>executions [1]
>>>
>>>
>>>[edit] First Indochina War
>>>Under the State of Vietnam era, the Binh Xuyen made arrangements with
>>>Chief of State Bao Dai giving them control of their own affairs in return
>>>for their nominal support of the regime.
>>>
>>>
>>>[edit] Partition of Vietnam
>>>Bay Vien, the leader of the organization, exiled to Paris after his
>>>unsuccessful attempt to take power from Ngo Dinh Diem, successor of Bao
>>>Dai as the head of the State of Vietnam, in May 1955.
>>>
>>>
>>>[edit] Vietnam War
>>>Many of the defeated fighters of the Binh Xuyen joined the Vietcong. Like
>>>many other South Vietnamese sectarian militant groups, the Binh Xuyen
>>>were mostly wiped out by the Army of the Republic of Vietnam under Duong
>>>Van Minh in Operation Rung Sat.
>>>
>>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binh_Xuyen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>[ AFTER NO ELECTIONS IN 1956 ---- PATIENCE FINALLY RAN OUT IN THE NORTH
>>>AND THE SOUTHERN NATIONALISTS ]
>>>
>>>Observing the increasing unpopularity of the Diem regime, on December 12,
>>>1960, Hanoi authorized the creation of the National Front for the
>>>Liberation of South Vietnam (NLF). The NLF was made up of two distinct
>>>groups: nationalists and communists. While there were many non-communist
>>>members of the NLF, they were subject to party control and were
>>>increasingly sidelined as the conflict continued. The principal objective
>>>of the NLF was to seize political power through a popular
>>>insurrection-military operations were secondary.[12] The NLF emphasized
>>>patriotism, honesty, and good government, while promising the
>>>reunification of Vietnam and an end to American influence.
>>>
>>>-----
>>>
>>>Successive American administrations, as Robert McNamara and others have
>>>noted, overestimated the control that Hanoi had over the NLF.[7] Diem's
>>>paranoia, repression, and incompetence progressively angered large
>>>segments of the population of South Vietnam.[34] Thus, many maintain that
>>>the origins of the anti-government violence were homegrown, rather than
>>>inspired by Hanoi.[35] However, as historian Douglas Pike has pointed
>>>out, "today, no serious historian would defend the thesis that North
>>>Vietnam was not involved in the Vietnam war from the start.. To maintain
>>>this thesis today, one would be obliged to deal with the assertions of
>>>Northern involvement that have poured out of Hanoi since the end of the
>>>war."[36]
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>The Kennedy administration remained essentially committed to the Cold War
>>>foreign policy inherited from the Truman and Eisenhower administrations.
>>>In 1961, Kennedy faced a three-part crisis-the failure of the Bay of Pigs
>>>invasion, the construction of the Berlin Wall, and a negotiated
>>>settlement between the pro-Western government of Laos and the Pathet Lao
>>>communist movement[39] These made Kennedy believe that another failure on
>>>the part of the United States to gain control and stop communist
>>>expansion would fatally damage U.S. credibility with its allies and his
>>>own reputation. Kennedy determined to "draw a line in the sand" and
>>>prevent a communist victory in Vietnam, saying, "Now we have a problem
>>>making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place," to James
>>>Reston of the New York Times immediately after meeting Khrushchev in
>>>Vienna.[40][41]
>>>
>>>Kennedy's policy toward South Vietnam rested on the assumption that Diem
>>>and his forces must ultimately defeat the guerrillas on their own. He was
>>>against the deployment of American combat troops and observed that "to
>>>introduce U.S. forces in large numbers there today, while it might have
>>>an initially favorable military impact, would almost certainly lead to
>>>adverse political and, in the long run, **ADVERSE MILITARY
>>>CONSEQUENCES**"[43]
>>>
>>>[ THEY KNEW THAT IN 1961 - KEPT FIGHTING UNTILL 1975 -- WHO'S IN ERROR?
>>>THE SAME ERROR BEING MADE IN IRAQ IN 2003-2008 AND COUNTING ]
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>IDIOCRACY - US CRONYISM STYLE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The Strategic Hamlet Program had been initiated in 1961. This joint
>>>U.S.-South Vietnamese program attempted to resettle the rural population
>>>into fortified camps. The aim was to isolate the population from the
>>>insurgents, provide education and health care, and strengthen the
>>>government's hold over the countryside. The Strategic Hamlets, however,
>>>were quickly infiltrated by the guerrillas. The peasants resented being
>>>uprooted from their ancestral villages. The government refused to
>>>undertake land reform, which left farmers paying high rents to a few
>>>wealthy landlords. Corruption dogged the program and intensified
>>>opposition. Government officials were targeted for assassination. The
>>>Strategic Hamlet Program collapsed two years later.
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>The CIA was in contact with generals planning to remove Diem. They were
>>>told that the United States would support such a move. President Diem was
>>>overthrown and executed, along with his brother, on November 2, 1963.
>>>When he was informed, Maxwell Taylor remembered that Kennedy "rushed from
>>>the room with a look of shock and dismay on his face."[48] He had not
>>>approved Diem's murder. The U.S. ambassador to South Vietnam, Henry Cabot
>>>Lodge, invited the coup leaders to the embassy and congratulated them.
>>>Ambassador Lodge informed Kennedy that "the prospects now are for a
>>>shorter war".[49]
>>>
>>>Following the coup, chaos ensued. Hanoi took advantage of the situation
>>>and increased its support for the guerrillas. South Vietnam entered a
>>>period of extreme political instability, as one military government
>>>toppled another in quick succession. Increasingly, each new regime was
>>>viewed as a puppet of the Americans; whatever the failings of Diem, his
>>>credentials as a nationalist had been impeccable.[50]
>>>
>>>Kennedy increased the number of U.S. military advisers from 800 to 16,300
>>>to cope with rising guerrilla activity. The advisers were embedded at
>>>every level of the South Vietnamese armed forces. They were, however,
>>>almost completely ignorant of the political nature of the insurgency. The
>>>insurgency was a political power struggle, in which military engagements
>>>were not the main goal.[12]
>>>
>>>[ SAME ERROR BEING MADE IN IRAQ RE INSURGENCY -- USA DID NOT EXPECT ONE,
>>>DID NOT PLAN FOR ONE, DOES NOT UNDER IT, AND MINDLESSLY CALLS IT
>>>"TERRORISTS" RATHER THAN POLITICAL NATIONALISTS - !!!!!!!!!! ]
>>>
>>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
>>>
>>>there's lot more information like this all over the world, in libraries,
>>>in docos, on the web.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>THX
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
