> On Aug 17, 12:10 am, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:
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>> On Aug 16, 7:40 am, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:

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>>> On Aug 16, 12:39 am, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:

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>>>> On Aug 15, 7:16 am, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:

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>>>>> On Aug 15, 1:02 am, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:

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>>>>>> On Aug 14, 4:43 pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:

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>>>>>>> On Aug 14, 12:59 am, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:

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>>>>>>>> A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

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>>>>>>>> Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
>>>>>>>> by living brain tissue.

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>>>>>>>> Stitched together from cultured rat neurons, Gordon's primitive grey
>>>>>>>> matter was designed at the University of Reading by scientists who
>>>>>>>> unveiled the neuron-powered machine on Wednesday.

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>>>>>>>> Their groundbreaking experiments explore the vanishing boundary
>>>>>>>> between natural and artificial intelligence, and could shed light on
>>>>>>>> the fundamental building blocks of memory and learning, one of the
>>>>>>>> lead researchers told AFP.

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>>>>>>>> "The purpose is to figure out how memories are actually stored in a
>>>>>>>> biological brain," said Kevin Warwick, a professor at the University
>>>>>>>> of Reading and one of the robot's principle architects.

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>>>>>>>> Observing how the nerve cells cohere into a network as they fire off
>>>>>>>> electrical impulses, he said, may also help scientists combat
>>>>>>>> neurodegenerative diseases that attack the brain such as Alzheimer's
>>>>>>>> and Parkinson's.

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>>>>>>>> "If we can understand some of the basics of what is going on in our
>>>>>>>> little model brain, it could have enormous medical spinoffs," he said.

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>>>>>>>> Looking a bit like the garbage-compacting hero of the blockbuster
>>>>>>>> animation "Wall-E", Gordon has a brain composed of 50,000 to 100,000
>>>>>>>> active neurons.

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>>>>>>>> Once removed from rat foetuses and disentangled from each other with
>>>>>>>> an enzyme bath, the specialised nerve cells are laid out in a nutrient-
>>>>>>>> rich medium across an eight-by-eight centimetre (five-by-five inch)
>>>>>>>> array of 60 electrodes.

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>>>>>>>> This "multi-electrode array" (MEA) serves as the interface between
>>>>>>>> living tissue and machine, with the brain sending electrical impulses
>>>>>>>> to drive the wheels of the robots, and receiving impulses delivered by
>>>>>>>> sensors reacting to the environment.

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>>>>>>>> Because the brain is living tissue, it must be housed in a special
>>>>>>>> temperature-controlled unit -- it communicates with its "body" via a
>>>>>>>> Bluetooth radio link.

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>>>>>>>> The robot has no additional control from a human or computer.

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>>>>>>>> From the very start, the neurons get busy. "Within about 24 hours,
>>>>>>>> they start sending out feelers to each other and making connections,"
>>>>>>>> said Warwick.

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>>>>>>>> "Within a week we get some spontaneous firings and brain-like
>>>>>>>> activity" similar to what happens in a normal rat -- or human --
>>>>>>>> brain, he added.

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>>>>>>>> But without external stimulation, the brain will wither and die within
>>>>>>>> a couple of months.

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>>>>>>>> "Now we are looking at how best to teach it to behave in certain
>>>>>>>> ways," explained Warwick.

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>>>>>>>> To some extent, Gordon learns by itself. When it hits a wall, for
>>>>>>>> example, it gets an electrical stimulation from the robot's sensors.
>>>>>>>> As it confronts similar situations, it learns by habit.

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>>>>>>>> To help this process along, the researchers also use different
>>>>>>>> chemicals to reinforce or inhibit the neural pathways that light up
>>>>>>>> during particular actions.

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>>>>>>>> Gordon, in fact, has multiple personalities -- several MEA "brains"
>>>>>>>> that the scientists can dock into the robot.

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>>>>>>>> "It's quite funny -- you get differences between the brains," said
>>>>>>>> Warwick. "This one is a bit boisterous and active, while we know
>>>>>>>> another is not going to do what we want it to."

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>>>>>>>> Mainly for ethical reasons, it is unlikely that researchers at Reading
>>>>>>>> or the handful of laboratories around the world exploring the same
>>>>>>>> terrain will be using human neurons any time soon in the same kind of
>>>>>>>> experiments.

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>>>>>>>> But rats brain cells are not a bad stand-in: much of the difference
>>>>>>>> between rodent and human intelligence, speculates Warwick, could be
>>>>>>>> attributed to quantity not quality.

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>>>>>>>> Rats brains are composed of about one million neurons, the specialised
>>>>>>>> cells that relay information across the brain via chemicals called
>>>>>>>> neurotransmitters.

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>>>>>>>> Humans have 100 billion.

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>>>>>>>> "This is a simplified version of what goes on in the human brain where
>>>>>>>> we can look -- and control -- the basic features in the way that we
>>>>>>>> want. In a human brain, you can't really do that," he said.

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>>>>>>>> For colleague Ben Whalley, one of the fundamental questions facing
>>>>>>>> scientists today is how to link the activity of individual neurons
>>>>>>>> with the overwhelmingly complex behaviour of whole organisms.

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>>>>>>>> "The project gives us a unique opportunity to look at something which
>>>>>>>> may exhibit complex behaviours, but still remain closely tied to the
>>>>>>>> activity of individual neurons," he said.

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>>>>>>>>http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080813192458.ud84hj9h&show_ar...

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>>>>>>> Interesting game.  But, is it really anything more than that?  I often
>>>>>>> have the feeling, these days, that scientific experiments aren't
>>>>>>> really intended to accomplish anything at all, other than attract
>>>>>>> attention.  What really are they trying to design with this particular
>>>>>>> monstrosity, other than the outline for a research grant?

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>>> - Hide quoted text -

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>>>> - Show quoted text -

>>>>>> Should they throw it away then because it will be abused but possibly
>>>>>> developed?

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>>>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlTImvP8M-Q&feature=related-Hidequoted...

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>>>>>> - Show quoted text -

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>>>>> Somehow, I'm not too worried about that possibility.  What worries me
>>>>> isn't that this is going to lead to the "Terminator".  What worries me
>>>>> is that it is extremely unlikely to lead to anything, and was only
>>>>> proposed because it sounds a bit like the "Terminator".

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>>>> Can explain why you believe it will ever, in the near or even far
>>>> future lead to anything? Using only nerve cells seems like a major
>>>> step, like inventing the transistor or something. This could be so
>>>> revolutionary that it changes everything in the information world.

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>>> Not really.  We've hooked up electrodes to the human brain that
>>> allowed people to crudely manipulate devices.  But, we haven't
>>> proceeded to be able to manipulate much of anything psychokinetically,
>>> for practical purposes.  Now we have a few neurons that can be used to
>>> very crudely manipulate something.  The problem isn't the general
>>> concept.  It's the crudeness of the technique.  And the total abscence
>>> of any general approach to structure the research process so as to
>>> refine the technology.  Scientists are good speculators.  But,
>>> frequently, they are very bad at moving from theory to practice.
>>> Perhaps because the system doesn't really reward results.  Neurons
>>> produce electrochemical discharges, obviously these discharges can be
>>> used to crudely influence an electronic system.  But, to produce
>>> something of real practical value, that may be a qualitatively
>>> different step.  Which the scientists have no way of knowing how to
>>> proceed to.  And may not which to proceed to, if they have no
>>> incentive to do so.

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>> The neat thing about this is that there is already an exposed plan for
>> developing bio-computers like mammal brains. The genes direct the
>> assembly of multiple cells and steer them here and there with chemical
>> gradients until a full brain sort of happens. All these researchers
>> need to do is learn to "steer" or "herd" these downhill processes and
>> find structures events in nature would not allow because of survival.

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>> Embryogenesis is the process by which the embryo is formed and
>> develops. It starts with the fertilization of the ovum, egg, which,
>> after fertilization, is then called a zygote. The zygote undergoes
>> rapid mitotic divisions, the formation of two exact genetic replicates
>> of the original cell, with no significant growth (a process known as
>> cleavage) and cellular differentiation, leading to development of an
>> embryo

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>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryogenesis-Hide quoted text -

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>> - Show quoted text -

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> What you are proposing would gaurantee human immortality.  We could
> regenerate the human brain.  I don't think it's quite as simple as you
> think it is.  But, best of luck to them.- Hide quoted text -
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> - Show quoted text -