On May 7, 12:31 pm, tg
earthlink.net> wrote:> On May 7, 11:21 am, ta
nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> On May 7, 11:04 am, tg
earthlink.net> wrote:>
>>> On May 7, 10:35 am, ta
nc.rr.com> wrote:>
>
>>>>> On 2 May 2007 09:55:06 -0700, tg
earthlink.net> wrote:>
>>>>>>On May 2, 11:46 am, Enkidu
trashmail.net> wrote:>
>>>>>>>> On May 2, 9:54 am, Matt
sprynet.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 7:40 am, Enkidu
trashmail.net> wrote:>
>
>>>>>>>>>>> There is a perplexing question in the debate about public
>>>>>>>>>>> education which I haven't seen come up in the other thread, so
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like some input on it.
>
>>>>>>>>>>> In the US, K-12 schools are funded for the most part by local
>>>>>>>>>>> property taxes.
>
>>>>>>>>>> False. In California, the vast majority of our school funding
>>>>>>>>>> comes from the state government. Many other states are moving more
>>>>>>>>>> and more to a similar system, often under court pressure to redress
>>>>>>>>>> disparities in funding between rich and poor districts.
>
>>>>>>>>> While it is true that California doesn't use as much property tax
>>>>>>>>> (primarily
>>>>>>>>> because of a 1975 court decision, as I recall), it does use state
>>>>>>>>> taxes
>>>>>>>>> for the bulk of its school funding. Property taxes, personal income
>>>>>>>>> tax,
>>>>>>>>> and business taxes are the big inputs here.
>
>>>>>>>>> I think the remainder of the article is fairly accurate, given that
>>>>>>>>> the people
>>>>>>>>> vote on most of these taxes as well.
>
>>>>>>>>> As a side note, in Colorado, school funding is pretty much
>>>>>>>>> extensively
>>>>>>>>> property taxes.
>
>>>>>>>> So what's with those people in Colorado? Why don't they just vote down
>>>>>>>> the property taxes and send their kids to private schools?
>
>>>>>>> They might, but if the state constitution has a provision like
>>>>>>> Califonia's requiring a "free and approriate" education for every child,
>>>>>>> a court case would force the state to adopt a different funding model.
>
>>>>>>Well it doesn't. So can you explain who is voting for those property
>>>>>>taxes?
>
>>>>> It's to everyone's benefit to have an educated population. It reduces
>>>>> crime, creates jobs, a good economy and gives you access to more
>>>>> doctors, lawyers, engineers, and a host of other professionals.
>
>>>> I agree, and I don't mind paying taxes to have other people's children
>>>> educated. It's an investment in my community's overall well-being.
>
>>>> My only gripe (and it's a big one) is the *way* in which they are
>>>> educated. Public schools are little more than worker factories,
>>>> churning out "employees". I'm not too thrilled about being forced to
>>>> pay money to support a system that ultimately does *not* benefit my
>>>> community's overall well-being -- at least not in ways that I think
>>>> are important.
>
>>>> I'd send my kids to an alternative, private school that runs on a
>>>> different model (and there's always home skoolin' too). That seems
>>>> easier and more realistic than trying to reform the broken public
>>>> school system that benefits too many powerful interests as it exists
>>>> today.
>
>>>>> You don't pay school taxes for the benefit of your own children, you
>>>>> pay school taxes for your own benefit.
>
>>>>> Also, it's been my experience that private schools not only are of
>>>>> questionable quality (and you don't get your money back if you don't
>>>>> think they came up to their promises or the lost years of your child's
>>>>> life) but they never cover the high school years or any school in
>>>>> rural areas. In a city with a population of half a million, there is
>>>>> only one private high school and that's a religious one.
>
>>>> I went to a private school for grades 1-6 (it was free if you belonged
>>>> to the church), and they were always proud of their comparatively
>>>> higher grade point average. I don't think there in necessarily a
>>>> direct cause/effect relationship there though. I do think, however,
>>>> that the smaller teacher:child ratio was a significant factor.
>
>>> Student-teacher ratio (for lower grades) is one of the few
>>> correlations out there which are clearly indicative of causality---of
>>> course, everyone ignores it so they can have phony debates with phony
>>> statistics.
>
>>> Imagine---kids do better when they get more attention from adults!!
>
>>> -tg
>
>> Yes, I think it's one of the most important factors to consider.
>
>> Although having 15 students with discipline/behaviour problems can be
>> more difficult than teaching 30 highly motivated, well-adjusted
>> students, so it's not strictly a numbers thing.
>
> But now you sound like you *want* schools to turn out "employees'. ;-)
Nah, I'm just making observations about the current model -- the
optimal student:teacher ratio will vary depending on the makeup of the
class.
> Seriously, this is where we go astray---we apply models without
> careful examination of the population we're working with.
>
> Personal attention matters just as much to a child who is 'well
> behaved' as to one who isn't; indeed getting attention is often the
> motivation for 'bad' behavior.
No doubt. But some students (I'm thinking jr. high/high school level
classes here) are more independent, more self-motivated, more
emotionally mature individuals -- others require significantly more
attention.
> I don't think there's any good reason
> to have someone standing in front of 30 people and talking at them at
> any level of education or behavior, particularly with the technology
> we have these days. But for young children, it is just shameful to put
> them in that situation. No wonder they turn into zombies by the time
> they reach high school.
I like how Blake put it . . .
I love to rise in a summer morn,
When the birds sing on every tree;
The distant huntsman winds his horn,
And the skylark sings with me:
O what sweet company!
But to go to school in a summer morn, -
O it drives all joy away!
Under a cruel eye outworn,
The little ones spend the day
In sighing and dismay.
Ah then at times I drooping sit,
And spend many an anxious hour;
Nor in my book can I take delight,
Nor sit in learning's bower,
Worn through with the dreary shower.
How can the bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?
How can a child, when fears annoy,
But droop his tender wing,
And forget his youthful spring!
O father and mother if buds are nipped,
And blossoms blown away;
And if the tender plants are stripped
Of their joy in the springing day,
By sorrow and care's dismay, -
How shall the summer arise in joy,
Or the summer fruits appear?
Or how shall we gather what griefs destroy,
Or bless the mellowing year,
When the blasts of winter appear?
http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/blake/schoolboy.html
> Let's take a lesson from Jesus and the US Army and have groups of 12
> as the maximum.
>
> -tg
Works for me.
