On Jul 17, 8:27 am, "rs...@
nycap.rr.com"
nycap.rr.com> wrote:> On Jul 15, 7:45 pm, r norman
_comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I like to see two people who approach the universe: the religionist
> and the scientist. The scientist takes as his guide “There is no God
> in the Machine”. This is easier with non-living things, and things
> like the blood, for instance, that we can pretend as being non-living.
> When life is involved, it becomes more difficult; when the nervous
> system is involved, it becomes almost impossible.
>
> Any reference to the soul (mind) is religionist. References to
> instinctive, natural, and learning suggest the religionist.
Anyone who suggests sould and mind are the one entity, has not yet
experienced the seperation. Sure, religions all say that this is only
experienced (in their opinion, not experientially), after death.The
belief of the reality of an experience is as accurate as the
anticipation of a sky dive is to the actual event.
The 'instinct' of a baby is no different than the instinct of any new
born. When we see any man made creation acting in such a way, we
accurately describe it as being programmed.
That initself causes great semantic problems.
>
> People tend to view dynamic system as a series of snapshots. To say
> that the genome determines the cell is a snapshot. To say that the RNA
> (in its many forms) dances on the genome is dynamic. Is the genome an
> actor, or a data bank?
As with light being a particle or a wave, it is neither. Like saying
is water H2 or O.
Can "reality(life) " be described religioulsy and scientifically. Same
answer.
>
> In the event, we simply say that the genome constructs the nervous
> system. The genome sets up the rules by which the nervous system
> reacts to the exterior world. The neuron extends dendrites and axons,
> makes synaptic contact with other neurons, and potentiates synapses.
Science always can discover 'effect', religionists speculate on cause.
>
>> The spinal cord is, indeed, part of the central nervous system. And
>> any nervous activity that is influenced by or influences the real
>> world must connect to the world through sensors and effectors, hence
>> the peripheral nervous system and accessory organs are part of the
>> total system.
>
> There are sensors, interneurons, and effectors. We can add as much as
> we want of anatomy.
>
>> The role of learning in behavior largely mediated by reflexes is a
>> complex question, as is the development of behavior mediated both by
>> inborn (instinctive or genetically determined) patterns of
>> connectivity and activity and by the environment. Still, humans like
>> all other animals seem to contain a great deal of central nervous
>> system organization genetically determined to produce posture and
>> locomotion. Exactly when that system gets put into full use at the
>> start of life is a separate question -- the system can be genetic but
>> incompletely developed at birth; it can depend on environmental cues
>> to establish the connectivity and activity patterns; it can depend on
>> learning; it can depend on some combination of these.
>
> The soul (mind) learns. Neurons extend dendrites and axons, form
> synapses, and potentiates synapses.
If you look at the scenario that mind is programmed, and 'soul'(self)
is the programmer, you open up the possibility of such discovery, but
unlike science which follows the same pattern, the eidence is
personal, and not epistemological.
You cannot find self awareness within group reference.
I first thought the heading was to do with the economy, and your ref
below referred to the Bush turkey, and therefor included satire.
Such is the richness of our language :-)
BOfL
> (following not to you, r norman, but to the group in general)
>
> If we want to talk about “Nature versus Nurture”, we should look at
> the Brush Turkey. It receives no nurture. It never knows its parents.
> It breaks open the eggshell, slithers out of the brood pile, and hits
> the ground madly running for cover. Its siblings disperse. In a short
> time (immediately, or within two hours) it can fly. Every thing it
> does is driven by a nervous system constructed by its genome, and a
> nervous system that potentiates synapses as instructed by the genome.
> It spends the first night on the ground, the second on a low perch,
> the third on a higher perch. If it has a fully functioning nervous
> system, it eats, if not, it simply starves to death.
>
> Don’t ask how the baby elephant “learns” to stand up. Look at the
> Brush Turkey chick as its neurons fire, and its muscle fibers are
> actuated.
>
> ray
>
> .
