On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:34:30 -0700, death from above wrote:

You speak of humanity but outside actual human practice. Love and Hate
are pure, human behavior and motivations are not so pure.

Making a case that love is hate and hate is love is a very clever but at
the same time voids meaning in both. Following your line of argument,
courage is cowardice, Selfishness is selflessness and honor is shame.

Or the classic:

War is Peace
Freedom IS slavery
Ignorance Is Strength

Here is your basic error, all too common these days:

This is just not true. Most people, most of the time did not and do not
fight. War and violence are a behavioral rarity that is why it is so easy
to focus upon them even to the point of making history out of them.

On Jul 12, 6:34 am, ZerkonX X.net> wrote:

We are not talking of motivations but inner dynamics.

No, you misunderstand. I didn't say love IS hate or vice versa. I said
love and hate serve and feed into one another.
if there's love and unity within a community, it will be stronger
against an enemy...

Let me condense your essay;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9J9rTZJBmw

TBerk

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:50:39 -0700, death from above wrote:

You seem to be cherry picking both war and peace.

your view is that peaceful human condition is based on the necessity of
contention and domination, white domination it seems. [If this is a straw
man argument, I apologize]. I do not see this as true.

All modern wars of the white man are wars waged by the state for reasons
of the state. They are not as basic as soil but due to interconnected and
self-interested economics. 'Self', here, being separate from a common
need or want. This may serve as an "inner dynamic" but it does not serve
as a human universal outside of the power to control which is, as I see
it, the basis of your argument.

It is this 'power to control' or 'need to control' which always, ALWAYS
flips to greed, corruption and internal destruction; and is the primary
reason why all 'great powers' collapse. Not unlike today.

The world is moving on. Not because of this power but despite it, no
matter how much war and violence is being the injected into popular
corporate US culture.

no, i'm saying that survival for animals depended on being alert to
dangers and predators. 'love' within mother and her offprings or
within a pack increased the chance of survival for species since they
could bond together against other animals. much the same could be said
for early man. this wouldn't be necessary if OTHER organisms were
nice, but most other organism wanted to attack you. so, it was to
your advantage if you had a common bond that shielded your side by the
power of cooperation and numbers.
as this has been the root of animal survival--and humans are
animals--, there is some of this that still matters to us.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:49:55 +0000, ZerkonX X.net> wrote:

I see more and more wars done by Righteous bastards who believe
everybody else must be wrong and should be punished.

On Jul 14, 7:42 pm, Howard Brazee brazee.net> wrote:

Like in Kosovo.