On Sep 5, 11:30Â am, Ed
earthlink.net> wrote:> turtoni wrote:
>> On Sep 5, 1:40 am, kevirwin
comcast.net> wrote:>>> On Sep 5, 1:30 am, turtoni
fastmail.net> wrote:>
>>>> "Man isn't a noble savage, he's an ignoble savage. He is irrational,
>>>> brutal, weak, silly, unable to be objective about anything where his
>>>> own interests are involved - that about sums it up. I'm interested in
>>>> the brutal and violent nature of man because it's a true picture of
>>>> him. And any attempt to create social institutions on a false view of
>>>> the nature of man is probably doomed to failure." - Stanley Kubrick
>
>>>> This is such a great quote.
>
>>>> Let us remember that:
>>>> "**ANY** attempt to create social institutions on a false view of the
>>>> nature of man is probably doomed to failure."
>
>>>> And that includes other nations...
>
>>>> And that we should be:
>>>> "interested in the brutal and violent nature of man because it's a
>>>> true picture of him."
>
>>>> dot dot dot
>
>>> The only social institution that comes to mind, that was created with
>>> man s true nature is:
>>> the prison system.
>
>>> Did I miss something???
>
>>> K e v
>
>> Yes you did. With the point being "on a false view".
>
>> Meaning that we build in protections against our inner ignoble-ness
>> (heh) within the social organizations.
>
>> Like the separation of the church from the state.
>
>> "Social organization or social institution, is a group of social
>> positions, connected by social relations, performing a social role. It
>> can be also defined in a narrow sense as any institution in a society
>> that works to socialize the groups or people in it. Common examples
>> include education, governments, families, economic systems, religions,
>> and any people or groups that you have social interaction with. It is
>> a major sphere of social life organized to meet some human needs.
>
>> Social organizations can take many forms, depending on the social
>> context. For example, for family context the corresponding social
>> organization is the extended family. In the business context a social
>> organization may be an enterprise, company, corporation, etc. In the
>> educational context, it many be a school, university, etc. In the
>> political context it may be a government, political party, etc.
>> Commonly, experts officially recognize these five major social
>> institutions that have been evident in some way in every civilization
>> in history: government, religion, education, economy, and family.
>
> Are you arguing that these institutions arose becasuse of man's brutal
> irrational nature or that they arose in (perhaps futile) attempt to
> alter or restrain man's nature? Â In oter words do these institutions
> codify brutalization etc or do they ameliorate them? Â If brutal men
> invented government, presumably they invented it to make their
> brutality and greed easier to satisfy.
"Government is sometimes an enemy and sometimes a friend. Government
exalts some of us and oppresses others of us. At times, governments
are aligned with our religious, economic and social views, and at
other times—misaligned.
The role of government in the lives of people has expanded
significantly during human history. Government's role has gone from
providing basic security to concern in religious affairs to control of
national economies and eventually to providing lifelong social
security. As our societies have become more complex, governments have
become more complex, powerful and intrusive. The controversies over
how big, how powerful and how intrusive governments should become will
continue for the remainder of human history."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government
