Re: The Degeneration of Mankind
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Re: The Degeneration of Mankind         

Group: alt.philosophy · Group Profile
Author: Robert Cohen
Date: Nov 19, 2007 20:06

On Nov 19, 8:36 am, Johnmuthukat gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 19, 3:26 pm, "tooly" bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> "> Nature vs Human
>
>>> The basic idea that man and nature were once in harmony but now on a
>>> collusion course has been a pet peeve of mine for quite some time. To me
>>> saying such a thing is like saying a lake is on a collusion course with
>>> water. Separating humans from nature can be a > way to look at < the
>>> unwise use of human resources or the pollution of the human
>>> environment but this has nothing at all to do with nature itself which is
>>> as present in a polluted stream as it is in the one pristine.
>
>> You are taking away 'useful' language by using strict logic. Most people
>> would understand the seperation of humans from nature 'in essence' to mean
>> simply pathways, as the original state, 'unharmonious'. Call it symbionism
>> of sorts...or some comential kind of relationship humans have with this
>> world [or not]. The more we venture away from 'harmony' with this world,
>> the more 'unnatural' we have proceeded [as the idea flows]. You mention
>> resources, which has many clear examples. The USSR was a political
>> experiment that radicalized the economy based in idealism. But it was
>> 'unharmonious' to this world and it's nature...and it failed. In fact, the
>> great strength of capitalism is laizez faire...'hands off' by human
>> tinkering to allow for nature to take it's course, which it turns out, is
>> quite efficient. So, there is an idea here, where 'human tinkering' does
>> create a need for language to describe how it can 'mismanage' and alter what
>> otherwise would be a 'better' or more 'natural 'course sans the tinkering.
>
>> In the case of the original post about DEGENERATION, I believe the language
>> is fair and understand completely and agree that 'human tinkering' [again
>> based in idealism...always based in some human notion of idealism] is direct
>> cause of this degeneration going on. We have 'forced' our existence away
>> from a more natural course that otherwise would have occured if humans had
>> not 'tinkered' with things.
>
>> The strick logic you presume is not wrong of course; strictly speaking,
>> nothing exists 'outside' of nature. But you are calling a semantical debate
>> when a more substantial discussion is needed. We HAVE degenerated...so WHY?
>> Or if one disagrees, why that to.
>
>>> There seems to be two threads here. One is the specialization of study the
>>> other is selling one's knowledge. Interesting to be sure. Why are such
>>> things being framed inside of 'good vs evil' and sudden enemies? There is
>>> nothing sudden here. As for good and evil you seem to be getting into some
>>> dogmatic something that might be best to clearly come out with.
>
>>> I think the gist of your concern is correct, however. Hyper Specialization
>>> should go into decline for a few generations. It has reached a point of
>>> doing more harm than good. Commercialization of the sciences is another
>>> element that has outlived it's usefulness for a while. Modern humans have
>>> too long viewed it's prime achievements as being synonymous with it's
>>> blinking gadgetry all of which are nothing more than different forms of
>>> electrified numbers. We live and learn. This is all we have done, can or
>>> will ever do.
>
>> I make my arugment about degeneration based upon my own cultural values,
>> which I believe were cutting edge of human social development when I learned
>> them. It is not the view of an anthropologist of course, who abstracts
>> himself in objectivity to have no bias. Fine and good...but one cannot
>> serve two masters I always say. So, I choose my subjectivity.
>
>> From this point of view, degeneration has three visible 'mile markers' that
>> one can judge the entire society by.
>> Pornography, homosexuality, and promiscuity. All societies have one main
>> interest by which social fabric is maintained...and that is THE FAMILY. I
>> know, I know, raving lunatic progressives will always argue there is no real
>> definition of the FAMILY, wanting to expand the idea to include all sorts of
>> variances from the 'traditional model' [please don't make one have to define
>> what that traditional model is...you'd just be argumentative].
>
>> The rise of pornography, homosexulity, and/or promiscuity all are direct
>> influence upon the solidity of the family unit. The strength of any human
>> society is based upon the strength of that family unit throughout. AS it
>> rises and falls [in overall stability and health], so does the fabric of the
>> society at large. Today, we severely degenerate. Bad enough that
>> pornography has become mainstream, that homosexuality is about to change the
>> very legal definitions of marriage, or that promiscuity has exploded to
>> include grade school children [even 'doing it' in the middle of classrooms I
>> hear, ha], but a very vampid radicalism has arisin in the far left, that
>> sees even political action against all things 'traditional' as being in its
>> interest to attack. This radicalism has wormed it's way into our very
>> education system now, and works upon the very minds of our children as they
>> grow from early on. Those making argument for that radical left may well be
>> products of this slow 'worm' infection in fact, without really understanding
>> their own enculturation and 'new world bias'.
>
>> The family unit [traidtional of course] is foundry of all human relations,
>> and as it fails, all human relations suffer.
>> So, now if you accidentally cut someone off in noonday traffic, you just
>> might get shot. And have you 'really' listened to the latest rap lyrics
>> your teenybop kids are jingling around the house? Ah...there are so many
>> many examples...ha...and I'm alway always so long winded in these damn
>> posts.
>
> Replygmail
>
> Thank you for your in-depth response.
>
> First, at the outset, I ask your pardon for my inability to give you
> an in-depth reply, for I am here, at my village, without an internet
> facility and I have to come to the town to avail it on hire. However I
> will respond to the general gist of remarks and observations -10
> replies in three groups-- on my article.
>
> On the whole, I am happy that most of the replies are disagreeing with
> my views, especially on my growing concerns of the imminent impending
> doom because of the present going of in human society. For I sincerely
> want my apprehensions to be proved wrong as it is a question of the
> security concerns of my children and my near and dear ones.
>
> Secondly, I am happy to see that many are there who are very
> optimistic of the present going and are ready to prove me wrong. May
> be it is the presence of people like them that keeps the world from
> going to more wrong and faulty. And I don't want to fail their will.
> Earlier I had occasions in extensively trying to analyze my data that
> convinced most of my friends, but only to leave them pessimistic in
> the end. One has to be strong enough to hold truths and realities.
>
> The fact is that I am not convinced of your arguments on the positives
> of the present going, that the human society, as a whole, is not on
> the verge of collapse, and
>
> that " this idea of the doom and extinction of humankind has been
> around since the beginning of humankind",
>
> that "we need not feel that "bad" or we need not be so disappointed
> about human "degeneration" since any reading of history - for one
> who is open minded - give the information that what is happening
> today - has been happening - from time "immemorial" - else"
>
> that " blah blah blah. Yeah, humanity is always about to get
> battered."..............etc.
>
> Yet, I can't help my analyze proving right and continue apprehending
> me. Any theory may be proved right if it's predictions come true.
>
> When Stephen Hawking published, in 1988, the global best seller A
> Brief History of Time, which contained none of the above kind of
> dangers, this author had written and published Story of Man--Layman, in
> New Delhi in 1990 (released by then Indian Prime Minister, Chandra
> Shekhar) which not only contained most of the above observations--
> literally--but also brought out the basic reason behind these imminent
> catastrophic developments. "Humanity is at the crossroads; turning to
> every direction, it shudders",. And, the basic reason for this
> imminent catastrophic development, which I advanced then was
> PROFESSIONALISM, which however was not only considered a boon and
> something positive at that time. But today professionalism has come
> under attack by many meaningful intellectuals and scientists, as one
> of the basic causes behind the catastrophic problems . And these
> revelations are being made by an author whose book Story of Man -
> Layman( 1990) cleared predicted almost all global events that have
> taken place from 1990 to 2007.
>
> And my concern is not without sufficient and authoritative grounds.
> "The survival of the human race depends on its ability to find new
> homes elsewhere in the universe because there's an increasing risk
> that a disaster will destroy the Earth, and that humans should have a
> permanent base on the moon in 20 years and a colony on Mars in the
> next 40 years.", said Stephen Hawking, the greatest scientist of our
> time and the author of the global best seller A Brief History of
> Time. One of the best-known theoretical physicists of his generation,
> Hawking, who was on a lecture tour in Hong Kong, was speaking to the
> press on June05, 2006, according to an Associated Press report.
>
> Earlier, 1,300 leading scientists from 95 countries who published a
> detailed assessment of the state of the world at the start of the new
> millennium had concluded:
>
> "Earth's life support system is disintegrating; the modern society is
> literally undoing the work of organic evolution; the institutions we
> have created are destroying the livability of the whole world. Planet
> Earth stands on the cusp of disaster and people should no longer take
> it for granted that their children and grandchildren will survive in
> the environmentally degraded world of the 21st century."
>
> As is evident, the above central observations are not the doom-laden
> talk of green activists. Until recently, the talk of any possible
> humanity's collapse or the Big Crunch was the preserve of lunatics and
> cults. In the past few years, however, an increasing number of
> intelligent and credible people have been warning that global collapse
> is a genuine possibility. And many of them are great, sober
> scientists, including Lord May, David King and Jared Diamond -- people
> not usually given to exaggeration or drama.
>
> Again, the tale of the Titanic comes uncomfortably close to describing
> the perceptual gap we now face: our inability to comprehend the scale
> of the ongoing degradation of the life process on the big spaceship,
> called, Earth. Few understand the magnitude of the potential tragedy;
> fewer still have a good idea of what to do about it. And still more
> shocking is another new reality. For the survivors of Titanic, help
> came from the nearest shore and from other passing ships. For the
> trapped earthlings--if at all there would be any survivors--it has to
> come from only other planets! And the most pitiable of all for the
> survivors is the sordid fact that their condition would be worse than
> that of the dead because, for the post- modern hightech, system-addict
> (consumerist) survivors it would be like the condition of a fish out
> of water. The Titanic passengers were mainly innocent victims; the
> passengers of the ailing spaceship earth today are more innocent,
> thanks to an ongoing high-tech ignorantism process underway on an
> unprecedented massive global scale since the last couple of centuries.
>
> Market leadership may draw a very glossy and tantalizing picture of a
> very bright 21st century with America at the wheels. Technology at
> breakneck speed promises the deployment of gene therapy, nanobiology
> (the use of microscopically tiny devices and medicines) and organ
> transplant from animals to humans, apart from the 'prospects' of
> finding ways to rewire our brains to repair individual deficiencies,
> they illustrate with new "informations." Cars, they say, will be so
> smart that they will drive us; better and fast space vehicles, almost
> all of them unmanned, will probe the depths of the solar system. With
> sensors and satelliter-driven air-crafts directing the source of
> future wars and the like the protagonists of this scientific
> excellence and "bright future prospects" indeed have longer and longer
> lists of the "look forwards" and shorter lists of "worry abouts" of
> the unfolding 21st century.
>
> Mankind on a collision course with extinction: The problem is
> genetical degradation. Let the much dreaded nuclear war breaks out or
> be it a highly catastrophic natural calamity capable of reducing the
> present population of seven billions to just seven people or just one
> people. However so far as he remains as he is--a parasite and modern--
> which he is compulsorily and genetically programmed to remain, he, as
> in the case of any parasite, is certain to become his own nemesis and
> is thus certain to meet his premature end. Even otherwise, many modern
> scientists too have found rapid degradation in body and mind due to
> the accumulation without control of degenerating mutations in the gene
> pool. They say that the rate of human descent is perhaps thousands of
> times faster than the rate of its ascent and that, unless checked, the
> modern mankind, as a species, will soon collapse. The degeneration is
> already apparent.
>
> As for the condition of man today, his position in society seems much
> frightening. Human resource, the world discovers, has today become a
> liability, not an asset. Sometimes it feels cruel that we are
> proceeding at a breakneck speed towards more sophisticated automation
> when labour is so cheap and the unemployment situation so acute. Even
> after getting employed with much effort or luck, we are also seeing a
> disturbing trend where one can be gainfully employed only for a very
> short time. By the time one approaches the late 30's one can sense the
> pink slip approaching. Career opportunities for the middle aged are
> restricted. The board room is getting younger by the day with young
> recruits occupying senior positions.
>
> The future seems bleak. To keep up with the times, one has to
> earn fast and earn the maximum while the going is good. All our
> efforts at framing a corruption-less society may well be a dream.
> Honesty and ethics are a load on the shoulder, they have to be
> offloaded in order to progress in the "right direction". Honesty is no
> longer the best policy; it is a millstone around the neck. It is no
> surprise to realize to fast emerging fact that man everywhere today
> has come to increasingly think that he has no future. Never in the
> history of mankind has man faced such a pathetic state of his society
> when he, along with his global leaders and even his religions have all
> come to be led by such a pathetic force called the market force.
>
> As for the new doomsayers, they all point to the same collection of
> threats -- climate change, resource depletion and spreading diseases
> being the most important. What makes them especially afraid is that
> many of these dangers are interrelated, with one tending to exacerbate
> the others. It is necessary to tackle them all at once if we are to
> have any chance of avoiding global collapse, they warn.
>
> Mass Extinction and the Ignorance and Indifference of the Mass
>
> Nature suddenly seems to place Home Sapiens among this planet's
> endangered species.
> Most well-meaning scientists are beginning to speak of being in the
> midst of a human-caused mass-extinction! We are on the verge of
> ecological collapse. However, despite massive evidence about its
> imminent extinction, mankind seems to suffer from an inability to
> recognize and understand what it is doing to its own environment.
>
> One may reasonably wonder as to why the world is growing paranoiac
> towards realities, as to why it fight shy of truths; why, under the
> face of even the last survival instinct it does not want to touch
> truth even with a barbed wire; why it can do only some lip service to
> truth; why all its modern problem solving processes are limited to be
> superficial and proving to be only symptom fighting and never touching
> the real fundamental issues. Even more serious, toxic social
> conditioning is occurring due to fear that causes selective blindness.
> This results in loss of insight and foresight -- not to mention the
> inability to see what's right in front of your nose --is often called
> "Not-Seeism", that has been draining our lifeblood for decades, and
> has been linked to the current epidemic of passivity.
>
> Unwillingness or inability to feel and sense the clear suicidal state
> of mankind by almost 99%% of the population is the number one problem
> that human society faces today. The inability of the majority of the
> people to register the problem in their mind is a deeper and more
> systemic problem. This is largely because of the mechanization of
> modern man who has become more a product of the market and the
> mechanical systems and no longer a product of nature. In the largely
> urban oriented modern human society, "biological life" has become
> foreign and irrelevant for most of us today.
>
> Almost everyone seems to feel that ideas that were not articulated as
> collective are not much effective or relevant to them. And in a market
> force-led world, which virtually monopolizes the mass media, what is
> articulated as collective weighs more on the spring of the market than
> on the real problems of man.
>
> Abraham Lincoln (American president, 1861-1865) said, "Corporations
> have been enthroned .... An era of corruption in high places will
> follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by
> working on the prejudices of the people... until wealth is aggregated
> in a few hands ... and the Republic is destroyed". Today, in the much
> globalized and corporations controlled world, existing, for all intent
> and purpose, as a single mega nation, we are bound to mean that the
> global 'republic' too is to be fast destroyed. We are doomed to self
> extinction because we have inherited some self destructive traits like
> our growing dependence on experts-- the market propped-up species--who
> ridicule public fears and distract attention from genuine concerns.
> The fast growth of a synthetic type of intelligence--intelligence
> without conscience or mechanical intelligence--has indeed heightened
> our dependence on experts who 'know many things about something and
> nothing about anything else'.
> From early days, experts of various persuasions have demonstrated
> their prejudices and incompetence. A non-expert should not feel
> obliged to accept an expert's opinion, nor feel inhibited about
> trespassing on the experts' demesne. Our future indeed depends upon
> confronting the experts. (see chapter on PROFESSIONALISM)
> We all know that truth is our ultimate savior. And for millions of
> years, truth was as open and as free as NATURE that nurtured man to
> evolve him as the 'crown and pride of all creations'. Corruption means
> untruth and untruth is injurious to both the victim and the culprit.
> In all sorts of corruption, we not only hide truth and tell lie to
> others but also, in the long process, fabricate ourselves as a bundle
> of fictions. There is nothing suicidal as lying to oneself. Here we
> deny truth or rescue to self as well as to others.
> Somewhere down the line in modern history, we chose corrupt means to
> attain our goals, only to become corrupted by our own methods, and to
> get trapped by a brutal despotism of our corrupt means which grew to
> giant mechanical systems.
> In our inclination to remain undisturbed and risk-free, we became
> chronic consumers of sophisticated convenience and comforts, and thus
> our growing distrust of man in holding bare natural truths and the
> ground realities led us to hand over our leadership to the
> sophisticated and highly mechanized market forces on a platter. Market
> force thus began to shape the collective human intelligence and to
> exploit their shared vulnerability by installing the work force of a
> species called the experts and specialists.
>
> Today, this leader system has grown to such super human monstrous
> level and, being completely mechanical, cannot understand the human
> sentiments and feelings other than the mechanical laws and equations
> so much that the present leader of the world, namely , the United
> States of America, has practically become a 'nation of lawyers'. That
> is, the leader of human society is just a giant sophisticated
> mechanical system which can little understand any human sentiments
> other than only laws and equations or their expert versions.
>
> Man versus Modern Man
> Why is man the kind he is today - so sharply different a species from
> the natural kind of breed he was for millions of years, a process
> which had made him the crown and the envy of all other creations?
> Because man is half heredity and half environment, we can answer the
> above question only if can answer the question: why is the world the
> way it is today?.
> Looking through the history window, we see sharp changes from the past
> to the present that have so abruptly taken place at the beginning of
> modern age in which it is seen that the world and man today are just
> the reversal of what they were in the past, say, some 500 years back.
> Formerly things were largely nature-controlled; today it is machine-
> controlled. Formerly, truth evolved from the general; today it is
> fabricated in the laboratory - and evolves from the particular - from
> the highly compartmentalized split atoms.
> In looking back it is seen that modern (mechanical) man stands highly
> fragile, strangely isolated, and defenselessly stranded from nature
> and from other species and, also from the man of pre-modern history.
> Modern society, thus, has distinct anti-human and anti-nature
> characteristics that are proving to be its own nemesis.
> Thus, no other species in nature, including man, except modern man,
> survive by exploiting another of the same species. No other species in
> nature, including man, except modern man, have their leaders so much
> protected from the same species. Modern man has to guard his leader
> from the attacks of people.
> No other species in nature, including man, except modern man, has a
> third sex (apart from the male and the female of the species) who has
> middleman (businessman) apart from man and women. Thanks to modern
> mechanical market economy leadership, there is no other species in
> nature,except as modern man that cannot consume their own products or
> fruits without a middleman or agent in between.
> No other species in nature, including man, except modern man, has
> become a slave of the system which it has temporarily created for its
> temporary service or use. Modern man-made systems have become rather a
> liability to man, which have reduced him to be not only a slave to his
> own systems but also a commodity in the reigning market economy. For
> example, today man must eat the highly processed food -- often
> synthetic foods-- to keep the food processing industry going and its
> vast employment.!
> No other species in nature, including man, except modern
> man, depend on synthetically (non-cyclically) grown and artificially
> prepared food as totally as modern man. As the dead food and a corpse
> eater (highly degenerated foods like the highly processed, tined, and
> genetically split foods) modern man (mechanical man) finds enough
> logic in consuming inanimate food (formula foods) for the animate
> life. Agri-business (feedlots, processed food) and Bio-tech (GMO's)
> have taken over our entire food supply before we could realize it. as
> modern man. (See 'Middlemanism and Over-process').
> No other species in nature, including man, except modern man, lives
> much less than the natural six and a half times of its' age of
> maturity. Thus man supposed to live up to an age of 130 if we take the
> age of full maturity as 20, a life span with ancient man lived, and
> the man of nature untouched by modern civilizations even lives today.
> This may be contentions issue citing the examples of more deaths and
> shortened human life span during the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.
> The written parts of histories are pure bunk
> No other species in nature, including man, except modern man, erect
> his dwelling place as a permanent structure to last several
> generations. Modern man who has come to erect his dwelling places as
> permanent structures and use them for several generations so much so
> that he always live in past environment.
> No other species in nature, including man, except modern man, live
> just by watching a few others live and play 'games' on them. Modern
> man has been reduced to be an onlooker or a passive spectator. For
> example, millions of pairs of legs are rendered lazy as they watch 22
> pairs of legs chasing a ball for weeks on end in the name of global
> succors catapulted by global market fleeces like Coke, Pepsi, Nikke.
> Market is idling and languishing the sex of millions by directing
> them to a live Madonna , Mickle Jacson global events, to finally
> leaving these millions of Zombies as they find fault with their
> partners at home. As part of the market mechanism, modern man has to
> fake his life, not live it (no wonder for the modern bizarre
> evolutionary developments like the fast shrinking sperm counts for
> modern man and the growing infertility and shrinking sex drive in
> modern women, for they have no use these organs other than watching
> their role models perform these shows). Otherwise, as the guaranteed
> fodder for the market forces, modern man is all the story of
> suppressed and ignored individual and the over projected 'model'--just
> living mechanically.
> And ,above all, no other species in nature, including
> man, except modern man, depended on non-cyclical/non-sustainable mode
> of development. Modern man having all his mechanical/industrial
> developments fully non-cyclical, non-sustainable, live by eating up
> the capital. Reportedly, the international economy will have consumed
> the LAST OF THIS EARTH within THIS decade.
> John Muthukathttp://truthpowerjohn.blogspot.com/

is humankind on the verge of calamity?

yes, it would seem to be rather probable sooner or later

do not (seemingly) generally both religion adherents and the non-
believers agree with the inevitability of catastrophe?

yeah, i suppose that's a fair statement, though seemingly it's not
normative to publicly confess to thinking it

what is the publicized "doomsday clock?"

i suppose this is a familiar graphic or illustrative cliche for
politically "concerned scientists" to dramatize how close the end we
are (it's usually placed at 1 minute to 10 minutes), and the media
"get off" when a scientist is photographed changing the minute hand of
the clock

do religious believers really believe it's "up to deity" and "deity's
reason is that s(he) is fed-up with the sinfulness of mortals?"

it's my observation that such seems to be a consensus or normative
take or perception of the overwhelming masses whom are seemingly
conventionally religious believers to various extents or degrees

as a "secularist," would i list what i mean as indicative of the
termination of all

i have done so in this group previously, and it's simply naming
specific afflictions such as bacteria that are immune to antibiotics,
viruses, murphy's laws of accidental f-ups, deliberate mass
destruction by so-designed weaponry, poisoning of sea by mercury/red
tide...

should one constantly worry or be happy or what?

perhaps

why don't i just go away now, because i'm making everybody sick
including myself?

okeedokee
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