On Mar 19, 7:29 pm, "Sugir Jinn"
wrote:>> On Mar 19, 7:03 am, "George Dance" wrote:
>>> On Mar 19, 2:18 am, "Sugir Jinn"
wrote:>
>
>>>> OB is my hero, and Jorge....
>
>>>>> On Mar 18, 2:14 am, "Dennis M. Hammes"
arvig.net> wrote:>>>>>> George Dance wrote:
>
>>>>>>> That sounds like you're referring to Shakespeare, whose sonnets
>>>>>>> consist entirely of quatrains and couplets; obviously another writer
>>>>>>> for 'babies' in the opinion of Mr. Hammes.
>
>>>> If carbon's breath has any thought or care
>
>>> O, yes, Tom Bishop. He's a good example of what comes from listening
>>> exclusively to Dennis Hammes - he comes up with one good line, and has
>>> to search for 13 others, all with the appropriate end-rhymes, to set
>>> it in. A needle in a haystack, as it were, or a gem in a pile of
>>> turds. (Have to add that, since Dennis likes writing about turds so
>>> much.) .
>
> Better than I thought I would do. As good as the best posted here.
> I studied under Dale also... You weren't here then.
>
No, I'm actually from alt.philosophy. I've only talked to a couple of
people, all this month.
>> I haven't found any "good lines" in the few poems I've read of Tom's.
>
> Then don't read it. Hammes has noted it favorably
>
>
Hey, I loved your two ending lines.
"The one last question causing me to weep,
is how to free, and still my love contain. "
Those deserve to be remembered by posterity. (this worm would suggest
'restrain' instead of 'contain, but it's your work, not mine).
>
>
>
>> I don't think that has anything to do with choice of form. I can't see
>> any sincerity in his writing. Everything comes across as a pose. "Look
>> at me - I don't fear death". "Look at me - I *care* about stray dogs".
>> "Look at me, I have a High Artistic Purpose", "Look at me, I can write
>> amusingly about birdshit", etc.
>
>>>> Gotta... jus gotta... heh...
>
>>>>>>> Which reminds me: if you *have* to write sonnets rather than poetry,
>>>>>>> why in the world choose the Petrarchan?
>
>>>> I rather like them.
>
>>> A succssful one is a pleasure to read. But look at Barrett Browning's
>>> ouevre; how many of her sonnets can one remember? I'll bet, just one;
>>> and just one line of that.
>
>> To have successfully injected a single line into the meme-pool of
>> canonical Eng Lit is a consummation devoutly to be wished (for most of
>> us).
>
I've found two. There are probably many others.
>>> (Hmm, maybe I can call Barrett FAT, and get a rhyme out of it?).
>
>>>> #2 convinced me. Then I met others.
>
>>>> Didn't bother... How much time?
>>>> You were /going to be/ a GREAT poet, right, wormfarmer?
>
>>> He has turned into quite the prolific dabbler, at least. And quite
>>> proud of his quantity as well. At least quantity of output is
>>> something to be proud of.
>
> Quantity of money isn't bad.
> It brings toys, and girls.
> Quantity of poetry is funny to me.
Book of Records, man. Dennis is the most prolific sonnet writer in
history.
> I don't even collect my own.
> I need to search Google to find it.
>
I wish you would collect them, in a book or on a page.
>> I don't think telling Tom that is such a great idea.
>
>>> I'll bet, though, that even a mediocre
>>> computer programmer could write a program to compose Petrarchan
>>> sonnets, and exceed his output in six months' time.
>
>> It wouldn't be hard in principle to write an app that strung words and
>> phrases together, either at random or from a corpus, with more or less
>> regular meter and end.rhymes, to any formal spec. The result, of
>> course, wouldn't be "poetry".
>
> Although I've written such code (for another reason..)
> the generation of names, and other header lines.
>
> Poetry generation was never a goal.
>
for you (or me).
>>>>>>> That works perfectly well in
>>>>>>> Italian, where almost every word rhymes with 100 or so others - one
>>>>>>> can write 14 lines of nothing but -ella, -ella, -ella (etc.) - but it
>>>>>>> looks like nothing but artifice to work in that form in English. It's
>
>>>>> "100 or so" is a wild underestimate most of the time.
>
>>>> Even wilder to speculate on your income from poetry per year.
>
>>> Hey, OB is fully aware of his present limitations. There's no point
>>> in flaming him.
>
>> Hey, but it's fun.
>
> Yes... Under certain conditions.
>
> My only point is that it is a hobby. And best thought of as a hobby.
>
I'm keeping my day job. 8)
