"ZerkonX" X.net> wrote in message news:pan.2008.02.29.15.58.34@X.net...

I once thought this too. But I observed how social campaigns with definite
political agenda could 'change' an entire society's way of thinking, and
thusly, the apparent 'truth' by which that society now follows.

By your above argument, one might conclude that the magnet of truth is
simply leading the donkey like a carrot on a stick; an evolution with
destiny and deterministic movement.

But understanding how much of this 'apparent truth' today has been invented
as an artifact of elites and not a random draw of consciousness, I have been
forced to change my philosophy to recognize that it all indeed, just might
reduce down to 'might makes right' [and you were astute to see the
fundamental principle of the discussion].

Though I'd like to agree with most of what you say, I must also entertain
this deeper logical condition in the argument (of might makes right), and
incorporate it into my thinking. I don't like it, but at this point, it is
what it is (to my way of seeing). Truth is not winning out, but simply that
which is stronger [that which owns the media for example or the education
institutions, or the newspapers and movies; that which controls our minds].

'Might makes right' does disappointingly cater to the Calvinist
Fundamentalism where there is no mortal justification of good, morality, or
for that matter 'evil'...but all things exist ONLY through the grace of God.
It is an incongruous logic that I've resisted all my life, because it
undermines all sense of mortal justice and plays into the hands of the
original poster who has the audacity to attempt to 'justify' the Ted Bundy's
of the world [or the Josef Mengeles].

These are dangerous times as espoused by the many arguments posed even on
this tame NG that radifies such traditional evils in our existence. I
cannot radify to you the material existence of God nor the Devil in the
modern era of physics and genetics, but I know the symbolism is as valid it
ever was...and I am quite confident that what we do now in our vast new
world intellectualism is radify what once was called Satan and give it's
rise in our hearts and minds. Josef Menegle was a very intelligent doctor
who saw himself as serving science. But he lost touch with his humanity
altogether as much of the entire nazi movement did, recast in intellectual
objectivity that simply alienated itself from what makes us human. They
became monsters and didn't even know it...and many in academia and even on
this NG are toying with the same dynamics, all in the name of self
empowerment through intellectualism.

I agree, Truth must exist as an absolute outside the dalliance of political
struggle [and that means at the individual level up]. But we cannot discard
the idea that domains exist, whereupon, for example, the 'more intelligent'
pulls authoritative reign over the lesser intelligent [such as we have
domain over the animals], and jungle law exists where the 'strong rule the
weak and the clever rule the strong', and though we may try and escape these
depressing shackles with idealism and nobility, we also must justify our
arrived-at conclusions back upon such foundations as well. If good holds
reign over evil, then there must be some essential 'power' by which it holds
that position; a "might' if you will.

On the converse, if God does not exist, then all things are not only
possible, but justifiable simply by their capacity to exist and survive.
Discarding God also gives evil a free and open door with which to enter
human existence; for then we have also discarded our capacity to recognize
and justify our resistance to that evil. We may think we have erradicated a
false 'shadow' by disavowing a 'false' light, but I argue all we have really
done is created a 'blind spot' where we can no longer see. Look around at
the things we have now embraced and tell me if you do not think are
returning to the jungle as a moral order.

But I for one still believe in God. I just have no form to suggest to
others. Perhaps a 'mass will' or something...a vector of all life form
toward some IDEAL existence that cannot be arrived at, but only struggled
toward. I know I'm not ready to justify the Ted Bundy's, the Josef Mengles,
my modern day philosphy prof, nor Satan. Maybe God is some natural force
that speaks out in us to resist what we instinctively sense as 'wrong'.
Love exists and that seems to keep the balance in 'goods' favor. But we
definitely teeter the saw these days; not sure which side it may eventually
sway. Intellectual disavowment of higher moral order is perhaps a major
heavy brick on the 'bad side' of the teeter saw [if EXPERIENCE is the final
guage of that bad...ergo, HELL and hopelessness to become our bedfellow].

In final light, the only way to discard the original argument [the
justification of Ted Bundy], is perhaps simply as matter of 'will' (and as
you did, simply reject it). That is intellectually insincere of course. We
cannot really 'intellectually' condemn it. If God does not exist, there is
no moral absolute, but only many people banging heads against one another,
and some can be monsters [but not in their own eyes]. Who and what survives
makes 'right'. All value judgements become a matter of 'establishment'
politically holding power over the disestabished; of mass will against the
individual, of 'might over the weaker set'. Murder then becomes not some
'wrongness' external to human existence, a 'moral' standard by which to
behave, but simply the 'mass will' exercising power over the individual.
And the Ted Bundy's justified as 'game players' perhaps, those that like to
test the territorial domain of the bigger ape. If he gets away with it, as
he did for at least 30+ times (to murder women), then he is exonerated by
his very success and survivability. Depressing, but the argument holds.
This is the promise of a Godless world; of a totally rational, scientific,
objective new-world mind. Corporate mindsets have already embraced it. Our
leaders closely follow.

This is why we must reject 'intellectualism' (as found in absolute
objectivity) itself as the last say, and regain our sense of 'BELIEF". It
is only when we realize that there are monstrocities that we simply cannot
'believe in' and still hold true to a deeper humanity [probably based upon
instinct, irrational, and emotional...a feel for right and wrong] that we
can find the conscious capacity to resist and discard those things we sense
as 'evil'. Our minds will have no anchor to such 'free fall thinking' as it
were; thusly making a 'belief in God' necessary [though, frustratingly,
allusive to material, genetic, concrete definition].

Love is real enough; I offer that as a starting point to build upon. Josef
Mengele of course will want to take love into the laboratory and dissect it
[so as to find power to make claim upon greater domains in his own
intellectualism; hmmm...sounds like a 'worship me' argument, ha]. But we
must resist. And fight back. I mean, if we are still human.