Re: Ted Bundy Philosopher?
  Home FAQ Contact Sign in
alt.philosophy only
 
Advanced search
POPULAR GROUPS

more...

 Up
Re: Ted Bundy Philosopher?         

Group: alt.philosophy · Group Profile
Author: deadendDan
Date: Feb 28, 2008 14:04

gmail.com> wrote in message
news:972fdfdd-c03a-4fd5-ac21-f5de5a06b586@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Ted Bundy Philosopher?
>
> Can someone confirm if the story here is true or not? Seems odd to me.
>
> http://famguardian.org/Subjects/SexualImmorality/Homosexuality/HomoAndNaturalLaw...
> I wonder if Miss Embler would find an answer to her question in the
> following transcript of a recently discovered conversation with one of
> his "victims" that Ted Bundy had taped. We will call her "Laura,"
> although that was not her real name.2
>
> Laura: Where have you taken me, Ted?
>
> Bundy: To a place where no one can follow us--or find you--at least not
> until long after I have disappeared--and you are dead.
>
> Laura: What do you mean?
>
> Bundy: What I mean is that I intend to rape and murder you.
>
> Laura: Oh, my God, my God, why?
>
> Bundy: Because, my dear, it will give me the greatest possible
> pleasure to do so.
>
> Laura: Please, please, spare me. Send for ransom, ask anything. I know
> my parents and their families and friends will do anything to save my
> life.
>
> Bundy: But you fail to understand me. I don't want anything from
> anyone else. It is raping and murdering you that I want, and nothing
> can substitute for it. By the way, unless I have lost count, you will
> be the 89th young woman--person I should say--who has been good enough
> to gratify me in this way. Believe it or not, I am very grateful to my
> victims--although I do not think of them as victims, but rather as
> those making the sacrifices necessary for my freedom--the freedom to
> live my life the way I choose to live it. Nations praise those who
> sacrifice their lives for the freedom of others, as you will shortly
> be doing. I would be glad to erect a monument to your memory--and to
> that of all the others, past and future, who have made and will make
> the same sacrifice--although I do not think it is practicable for me to
> try to do so.
>
> Laura: But Ted, how can you possibly call raping and murdering your
> "freedom"? What about my life and freedom?
>
> Bundy: I recognize that your life and your freedom are very valuable
> to you, but you must recognize that they are not so valuable to me.
> And if I must sacrifice your life and freedom to mine, why should I
> not do so? The unexamined life was not worth living to Socrates. And a
> life without raping and murdering is not worth living to me. What
> right do you--or does anyone--have, to deny this to me?
>
> Laura: But rape and murder are wrong. The Bible says they are wrong,
> and the law says they are wrong.
>
> Bundy: What do you mean by wrong? What you call wrong, I call attempts
> to limit my freedom. The Bible punished both sodomy and murder with
> death. Sodomy is no longer regarded as a crime, or even as immoral.
> Why then should murder--or rape? But, you say, rape and murder are
> against the law, and if the law catches me, it will punish me. Very
> well, and if it does not catch me, what then? After so many highly
> successful and immensely gratifying rapes and murders, I do not think
> the law has much to say to me. In any case, it can hardly punish me
> any more for what I am about to do, than for what I have already done.
> So I see little benefit for you in this argument.
>
> Laura: But surely, surely, Ted, you must see that killing an innocent
> human being is wrong. Did you, or do you not have a mother and a
> father, or a sister or a brother, or friends, in whom you recognize a
> life like your own, that should be as precious to you as your own
> life? Is there not something within you--a conscience--that tells you
> that to be a human being is to recognize that everything is not
> permitted? And that your own happiness--indeed your own freedom--depends
> upon living within the bounds prescribed either by God or the moral
> law?
>
> Bundy: Well, Laura, I am glad we are having this talk. None of my
> other victims ever asked me to justify myself as you are doing. And so
> I must tell you--and hope it will afford you some satisfaction--that you
> are if possible increasing the pleasure I am having from our
> acquaintance, short as it must be.
>
> I want you to know then that once upon a time I too believed that God
> and the moral law prescribed boundaries within which my life had to be
> lived. That was before I took my first college courses in philosophy.
> Then it was that I discovered how unsophisticated--nay, primitive--my
> earlier beliefs had been. Then I learned that all moral judgments are
> "value judgments," that all value judgments are subjective, and that
> none can be proved to be either "right" or "wrong." I even read
> somewhere that the Chief Justice of the United States had written that
> the American Constitution expressed nothing more than collective value
> judgments. Believe it or not, I figured out for myself--what apparently
> the Chief Justice couldn't figure out for himself--that if the
> rationality of one value judgment was zero, multiplying it by millions
> would not make it one whit more rational. Nor is there any "reason" to
> obey the law for anyone, like myself, who has the boldness and daring--
> the strength of character--to throw off its shackles. And I was
> assured, by what I regarded as the highest possible authority--a
> Harvard-trained philosophy professor--that,
>
> The root notion of [true] freedom is . . . the spontaneous,
> uninhibited expression of the integrated self . . . [and that] the
> absence of freedom means . . . the presence of blocks or limitations
> that prevent unfettered expressions of the self.
>
> I discovered that to become truly free, truly unfettered, I had to
> become truly uninhibited. And I quickly discovered that the greatest
> obstacle to my freedom, the greatest block and limitation to it,
> consisted in the insupportable "value judgment" that I was bound to
> respect the rights of others. I asked myself, who were these "others"?
> Other human beings, with human rights? Why is it more wrong to kill a
> human animal than any other animal, a pig or a sheep or a steer? Is
> our life more to you than a hog's life to a hog? Why should I be
> willing to sacrifice my pleasures more for the one than for the other?
> Surely, you would not, in this age of scientific enlightenment,
> declare that God or nature has marked some pleasures as "moral" or
> "good" and others as "immoral" or "bad? In any case, let me assure
> you, my dear young lady, that there is absolutely no comparison
> between the pleasure I might take in eating ham, and the pleasure I
> anticipate in raping and murdering you. That is the honest conclusion
> to which my education has led me--after the most conscientious
> examination of my spontaneous and uninhibited self.
>
> At this point in the tape there was a sharp scream, followed by a
> click, indicating that the tape recorder had been turned off.
>
> May I suggest that Ted Bundy is a true existentialist hero, who
> displayed a resolution worthy of the nihilist's truth that morality
> has no other support than what we will it to have. Since Bundy lived
> the doctrine that most philosophy professors only talk, it seems
> proper to suggest that there be established a Theodore Bundy Chair in
> Applied Ethics. I would estimate the cost of such a chair as no more
> than $300,000 (without the batteries). I would hope that successive
> incumbents of the chair would piously memorialize, i.e. reenact (on
> the appropriate date), the apotheosis of the original incumbent.

This is what I've warned about all along, what I call the "Joseph Mengele'
syndrome where absolute objectivity and intellectualism eventually takes the
mind [and most alt.p posters LOL]. It is a sociopathism, but a powerful
one, based upon intellectualism and rationalism. Our intelligence is what
gives us a sense of sway over the animals...and it can work back upon itself
in the individual to give the powerful intellect a sense of sway over other
'like in kind' intellects, if less powerful in their ability to sway.

The post above may be accurate in one observation however, that ultimate
truth reduces down to a battle of wills. In it's most symbolic traditional
fashion [and simpler to understand], a battle of will between good and evil,
between God and the Devil as expressed in each of us hour to hour, day to
day [ and again, conceptualization as a symbolic envelope to house the
entire scope that is too immense really to understand in all it's parts,
though we try]. I argue that complexity can lead the human mind to no
longer see the forest for the trees.

As a manifest, virtue enhances that will as a sustenance to outlast such
evil sociopathism. In a simpler context, again this is just the age old
struggle between good and evil rehashed in intellectual and existential
cloaks, and though it sounds more sophisticated to the modern mind, it
reduces back to the same relational dynamics.

Another thing to consider is the definition of 'self'. There is
concentricity that reaches beyond the individual for inclusion of larger
entity. The context of this argument for Bundy as an existential hero of
sorts, leaves that definition at it's most base form, the body. This could
be an argument for absolute isolation of the individual...and is probably
reason enough our general will would never sustain the argument, no matter
it's rationality. It would be anti-human...a monster even.

Now that I think as I write, that might be the more important concept to
explore here...the idea of isolation at the individual, or the conscious
inclusion of greater and greater scope [in it's most symbolic form, God
perhaps]. The devil [sic] in other words, might be a product of
psychological isolation in any one of us. Unfettered objectivity I have
observed leads to alienation from the whole [much as the Bundy purview in
the post]...and a specific type of isolation and potential for evil. But in
the purveyor's mind, there is no sense of this...but only the intellectual
validation of self.

I hate to say it, but this dynamic is very pervase in today's secular
academic environment where intellectualism is being pushed to alienation
from the human condition. Satan rises [of course, meant in symbolic form as
the emodiment of evil...a 'value judgment' of that human condition]. The
human condition may rest upon the maintenance of our empathetic reach which
is harbinger for conscience...and such arguments for existenial nihilism as
the original post suggests, is an argument for severence of that bond.
Again...anti-human...a case for monstrocity. Humans rise up with
pitchforks and shovels to kill monsters...at least I hope they still do [we
put Bundy to death in the electric chair for example]. But yes, just a
battle of will perhaps.

In that 'will' I reject the entire premise of the original post.

Be careful, LOL...this plays into the idea of 'belief'. Will can ultimately
hinge upon what any one of us 'believe' in...or in it's converse, what we
cannot believe in. I know I for one cannot believe in the world we've now
created. Can you say President Hussein Obama?
no comments
diggit! del.icio.us! reddit!