>>>>
>>>> "L Justice"
yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:qCL9h.4698$rR3.1066590@weber.videotron.net...>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Kan"
homeworld.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:mtr9h.18968$371.12904@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...>>>>>>>I find it very hard when people tell me they "know" the truth and
>>>>>>>they have the answers when they are such awful people I really would
>>>>>>>not want to know what they know!
>>>>>>> Why is it that the more Religious or devout or pious or humble
>>>>>>> people become, the WORSE kind of people they become?
>>>>>>> When I look at Siri Bhot Dishwhana or whatever his name is in his
>>>>>>> flowing robes I really cannot help but laugh. And yet he would have
>>>>>>> all these serious pious humble devotees who all look just as stupid!
>>>>>>> And the more Christian or Religious people become - the more they
>>>>>>> develop this stupid benign Christian smile where you feel that if
>>>>>>> you WHACKED them round the face they would say "Peace. And Jesus be
>>>>>>> with you."
>>>>>>> It seems the more people have faith and know the truth - the more
>>>>>>> they lose their personalities and become who they are NOT.
>>>>>>> It is almost as though faith and truth makes you "false".
>>>>>>> None of them seem to have any kind of sense of humour and they have
>>>>>>> no personal PERSONALITY or CHARACTER because they are all merely
>>>>>>> regurgitations of what they have read or learnt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do you link "know the truth" with "faith"? They are diametrically
>>>>>> opposed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BOfL
>>>>>>
>>>>> Mr. Fletcher,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think know the truth and BELIEF may be diametrically opposed. Why
>>>>> believe when you can know..?!!!
>>>>> Faith is neccessary and is not a quality of ignorance or stupidity. I
>>>>> would beg to differ.
>>>>
>>>> I believe things I dont know and know things I dont believe. There is
>>>> room in each of us for all of these aspects. True integration is to
>>>> recognise there are no contradictions.
>>>>
>>>> Faith? I have faith that this communication will be useful. Do I know
>>>> that? Yes.It already has been ;-).
>>>>
>>>> The mathematicians are slowly discovering multi dimensional realities.
>>>> This is what I'm referring to. The multi level dimensions within.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I felt the need to comment to that because it jumped out at me and bit
>>>>> me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do appreciate that you question this individual to debate.
>>>>>
>>>>> ..... In response to main post
>>>>>
>>>>> here are some things I gather from what you wrote..
>>>>> People can say all kinds of things, but being a living example of
>>>>> goodness speaks for itself and has what would appear more intrisinc
>>>>> value.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I know how monotonous, sterile, and boring, dogmatic humans
>>>>> can be. And I think you had to vent on that subject. They are
>>>>> nevertheless members of the human species who like the rest of us seek
>>>>> sometimes desperately to fill a void that no one single person can
>>>>> wholly fulfil.
>>>>>
>>>>> If all else fails, kill them. have a good day.
>>>>
>>>> I'll remember that if I meet Buddah on the road.
>>>>
>>>> There is only one person that can fill "the " void.
>>>>
>>>> Keep the faith :-)
>>>>
>>>> BOfL
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Is it 'faith' if it requires some proof?
>>
>> There is a chronological build up to 'faith'. Evolves from 'hope'.
>>
>>> Is it that the possibility of proving it disallows for real 'faith'?
>>
>> Again, different realities. Part of the evolution of ones awareness. If
>> your faith was proven to be accurate on some specifics, does that not
>> give you more faith in the process?
>
> Well, it DID until you mentioned THAT ;)
>
>>> (You can only have real 'faith' in that which you believe can never be
>>> proved?)
>>
>> This is what mutation is all about.Beliefs shift also.
>>
>>> I may have to look it up. But first ...
>>> I think faith plays an essential role in knowing things.
>>
>> In that sense I have absolute faith that all things are knowable, and I
>> will discover each step when I am ready.
>> Sometimes the definitions appear to be blared.
>
> sometimes blared, sometimes blurred ;)
I dont have faith in spellcheck...tooo many witchy conotations... hehehehehe
>
>>> The key is : What is that faith?
>>
>> A permanent link in an evolving chain.
>>
>>> Having faith in things allows us to skip testing.
>>
>> Depends how close you are to (specific) mutation .I find the test results
>> "show up". Never ceases to amaze me.
>>
>>> We have faith about certain things because we have seen enough evidence
>>> (or have been told a good lie, for that matter).
>>
>> Another aspect of evolving "faith" is your confidence in your own
>> discrimination ability. The more truthfull you are to yourself, the
>> quicker "good lies" dissipate, wherever they originate.
>
> :) That is what I like about philosophy. I don't think any one philosophy
> or even a picked set of philosophies are my goal- just to use it as a tool
> to see things from as many different ways as possible so to help dissipate
> the good lies.
>
>>> What are a person's demands of proof to allow for what level of faith?
>>
>> The less the demand, the more the faith and the converse. Both valid IF
>> you acknowledge the validity of both.
>>
>>> We can't retest every mathematical formula known to man each time we
>>> have a new idea about something or run for ourselves every experiment
>>> ever done.
>>
>> Exactly. But do you see, from the above comments, why we each dont have
>> to? This is and excellent insight into the functioning of "group
>> consciousness", and how the individual functions harmoniously within both
>> realities, both "you" and "they" It is no coincidence that quantum
>> science "showed up" at this time, and why I am always suggesting self
>> dialouge should be adressed to "I" not "we".
>>
>
> :) It is not really coincidence that people independently discover things
> at the same time.
> When it happenes it gives us more faith that we really are understanding
> something, but that faith must be questioned.
> Sometimes great things are discovered in the questoning of that 'faith'.
> To me, experiment is all about disproving yourself
> To me, philosophy is all about disproving yourself... well, should be ;)
Another 'natural' paradox. Disproving is a process of proof.
I often use the term "process of elimination" (prefer the word illimination,
but it doesnt exist. If it did , it would mean a "illumination by
eradication". I know "that which I'm not" is an essential step.
>
>>> Science is the process which allows me to have faith.
>>
>> And my faith in weather patterns allows me to plant my garden.I also had
>> faith that there would be droughts, which is what is hapening now in SE
>> Queensland.
>>
>> My garden may die. Isnt that remarkable :-)
>>
>>> I have faith in so many things... only because I trust the methods
>>> people used to 'prove' them.
>>
>> Of course trust is an essential component to "healthy" faith. Ultimately
>> we trust ourself to be able to handle anything that life presents. An
>> aspect of true freedom.
>
> The last time I reallt thought about that was after (when) listenening to
> "Feel The Fear And Do It Anyway"
> The author / speaker kept repeating (instrucing listeners to repeat)
> "[whatever it is] ... I'll handle it"
> She first gave reasons to have faith that you would handle it - because it
> is true , no matter what happens, you will handle it.
> It really is a philosophical tool, because some develop a
> counterproductive philosophy of fear, and it works so well, because if a
> person does not do something they don't get hurt and proves the philosophy
> works ('unfulfilling phrophecy'? - lol). My overall philosophy was my
> interpretations of the Golden Rule (my take [sort of the Eastern verson]:
> Do not do unto others that which you would not have them do unto you) and
> the Hippocratic Oath. (my very limited take: First, do no harm).
> If I did nothing then I wouldn't hurt anyone. It does work, but not for
> everything!
There is pain of injury and also of exhilleration. Ask an accomplished
athlete (like me hehehehe)
BOfL
>
>>> I need a lot of proof to allow me to have faith, but once I have it,
>>> well, I would call it faith.
>>
>> So you have faith that your name is Phil Clemence? All contextual Phil
>> (see , I have faith this is your name, but I wont be cut up if I find out
>> you are actually a "BORG" heheheheheeh.
>>
>> Its great to participate in constructive dialouge. Thanks.
>>
>>> -Phil Clemence
>
>
