>
gmail.com> wrote in message> On Jul 15, 6:12 am, "TruthSlave"
home.com> wrote:>>>
gmail.com> wrote in message>>
> .
>> I think you are missing the word, 'again'. Without the acknowledgement
>> signalled with the word, there would be the unasked question, do you
>> understand?
>>
>> Do you understand my pain? Do you understand my loss? Do you
>> understand what you did was wrong?
>
> Thats my whole point. So many interpretations for one word.
> Even the last of your examples doesnt necessarily connect to the first
> two.
>
> There has been lots of contraversy in Aus over the last few years
> regarding the government saying "sorry" for the 'lost generation' of
> aborigines.
>
> Yes, we understand your pain and loss. There is the (possible)
> empathy. Even those that felt it had no reson to be sorry, in the
> apology sense. Ever tried to apologise for anothers action.?
>
> Of course, because it is such a 'charged' word, the previous
> government wouldnt say it, for fear of litigation. That it would be an
> admission of guilt, meaning people who were not responsible, would
> have to pay. That could have actually stried up resentment.
The word sorry can be such a powerful word, so powerful it is withheld
for that reason by the powerful. This doesn't mean our use of the word
isn't qualified. Our use of 'Sorry' doesn't make its unconditional so that
it applies to everything. I can say I am sorry for your pain, without saying
I am guilty or directly responsible for your wrong.
There again to say sorry and not mean it, or say sorry and then do the
same thing again, might also be a reason to withhold its use. The word
becomes a memory, the most recent summary of events. Some would
sooner all memory remained buried in the past, forgotten, not renewed
by the word.
>> 'Sorry', says it all.
>>
>> We are not mind readers, body language alone is not nearly enough,
>> so there is the word which clearly and simply allows this statement to
>> be made. I would sooner it was used than not.
>
> I do often, when I accidentally bump into someone.
>>
>>
>>>> One can express regret with
>>>> out presupposing that expression undoes all that was done.
>>
>>> I always cringe when I hear "sorry your dog was killed".If you don't say
>>> that, will the person think you are happy it happened? I know it is a
>>> reaction, just as nearly bumping into someone on the street (although
>>> the same sensitivity doesn't extend to driving the car...but that's
>>> another subject :-).
>>
>> How else would you approach the subject of loss or regret? The word
>> succinctly communicates this mode of thought, empathy.
>
> When there is genuine empathy, the words mean little. When there is
> not, same outcome.
So how do you communicate empathy? Empathy without recourse to
language? Assumed from our reactions, when our reactions aren't always
what they seem.
>> I might not care, but I would at least understand.
>
> Then say "I understand".
>
>> I wonder if without the word, there would be the thought. Or if without
>> language we could ever be more than instincts. Existing on the level of
>> reactions, fearfilled questions unresolved, without understanding.
>
> Three stages of consciousness well identified.
>
>> This is what I feel - I need to know you understand.
>
> Better still. If the response was "Im not ready to connect", would
> that not be much clearer than 'sorry"?
'I'm Not yet ready to connect'.
Is this the powerful speaking? 'Not ready to connect?', as oppose to
what? 'Not yet ready to understand?' Please explain this relationship.
>>
>> Without the word, there would still be the question. There again if I
>> did not expect the word, what kind of person would I be? If I never
>> used the word, what kind of person could I be?
>
> The 'sort of person' you are, comes out 'through' the words.
>
>>
>> The group needs the word, so the word is created. We demand
>> the word is used. Infact the word is used to train the young with this
>> awareness of its place within the group. 'Sorry', as if to say no child
>> is an island. We are each responsible for our [re]actions.
>
> You havnt seen how that develops in some arenas?.
> For many, it develops into an excuse for inappropriate behaviour.
>
> There are about 1 billion Cathlics that subscribe to that approach.
I can see the sense in which 'Sorry' might be used without virtue or
meaning, yet its use, does create that sense in us of its importance.
This is as much about the absence of the word, as the use of the word.
If we didn't know the word, weren't trained with the word, there would
be no sense of its absence. The child trained properly on its use, learns
to sense this schism in its behaviour. There again, there are ways to
appease us of this conflict. Exchanges offered in the culture to reconcile
this innate sense between the resolved and the unresolved. This is perhaps
what you refer to above as the 'excuse for inappropriate behaviour'.
Three Hail Mary's and all is for given. This alternative form occupying
the 'space' of an apology. Reconciling the act and what we choose to call
our conscience.
>>>> On the other hand, if we were to exist solely as brokers of
>>>> power, submitting to those with demonstratably more power,
>>>> crushing those we consider weaker, then there might be no
>>>> need of the word sorry. In such a world we would neither use,
>>>> nor expect this gesture.... 'Sorry'.
>>
>>> Thats a far cry form that lovely old line from "Love Story".."being
>>> in love means never having to say you are sorry"
>>
>>> Theres a lot more depth to that statement that was understood back
>>> then.
>>
>> And yet what happens when you are not 'in love', quite the contrary
>> in fact..
>
> Not when you 'love life".
Such a deep statement, yet even that would need to be qualified.
Does the Ant see the microbe as life?
> In your example, apology can be used as a ping pong ball, to keep the
> 'game' flowing.
>
>> What then, would you still forgo the word and its function? Perhaps
>> we should bring back the duals, pistols at dawn, the glove slap, and
>> the other older ways to demand respect. We are kind of getting that
>> way. The absence of the word, creating the conditions which gave
>> rise to the word.
>
> Im sorry you feel that way :-)
>
> What you said reinforces my comment regarding the three stages of
> consciousness.
>>
>> Modern then post modern, then onwards into barbarity with perhaps
>> a renew desire for modernity. Remove these vestige of civility and
>> surely we would return to some prior state. BS before sorry.
>
> This is just as likely because people think "sorry" is enough, as it
> appeared to be when they were children.
>
> Actons speak louder than words, and sometimes words say nothing at
> all.
>
> BOfL
>
>>
>>> BOfL
>>
