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Author: tgtg Date: Dec 19, 2007 04:33
There are certain basic scientific facts which are not open to
question.
1) There is currently a climate change [warming] of the planet..
2) There is a greenhouse effect attributable to certain atmospheric
gases, which has always existed.
3) Carbon dioxide is one of those greenhouse gases.
If you ask any scientist whether, in a simple experiment in the lab---
a box with infrared light shining through it---increasing CO2 will
increase absorption of that light, they will say "of course". What has
been debated in the scientific community is not these basic facts, but
how various complex interactions affect overall climate.
In order to have a sensible discussion, one must begin by accepting
these facts.
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Author: Fred WeissFred Weiss Date: Dec 19, 2007 06:06
On Dec 19, 7:33 am, tg earthlink.net> wrote:
> There are certain basic scientific facts which are not open to
> question.
>
> 1) There is currently a climate change [warming] of the planet..
> 2) There is a greenhouse effect attributable to certain atmospheric
> gases, which has always existed.
> 3) Carbon dioxide is one of those greenhouse gases.
True, but this is what Mr. Richard Lindzen,Alfred P. Sloan Professor
of Atmospheric Science at MIT, has to say about it:
"There is also little disagreement that levels of carbon dioxide in
the atmosphere have risen from about 280 parts per million by volume
in the 19th century to about 387 ppmv today. Finally, there has...
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Author: MichaelNJMichaelNJ Date: Dec 19, 2007 06:53
On Dec 19, 7:33 am, tg earthlink.net> wrote:> There are certain basic scientific facts which are not open to
> question.
>
> 1) There is currently a climate change [warming] of the planet..
> 2) There is a greenhouse effect attributable to certain atmospheric
> gases, which has always existed.
> 3) Carbon dioxide is one of those greenhouse gases.
>
> If you ask any scientist whether, in a simple experiment in the lab---
> a box with infrared light shining through it---increasing CO2 will
> increase absorption of that light, they will say "of course". What has
> been debated in the scientific community is not these basic facts, but
> how various complex interactions affect overall climate.
>
> In order to have a sensible discussion, one must begin by accepting
> these facts.
>
> The second thing one must do is to think clearly about the mechanism
> and the numerical relationships. The greenhouse effect is created by ...
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Author: Anthony G. RubinoAnthony G. Rubino Date: Dec 19, 2007 06:41
1) There is has always been cycles of climate change of the planet..
2) There are many effects attributable to other things like sun cycles,
volcanic activity, etc. which have always existed.
3) Carbon dioxide is one of those greenhouse gases that interact with
the rest of the environment.
The important questions are:
How significant is man's activities?
Why is it assumed that warming is a bad thing?
The current warming might be necessary to offset other forces, which,
left unchecked, would cause a future deep freeze, e.g., some volcanic
eruptions.
Future discoveries might find better ways to offset undesirable effects
without trying to control the world population.
Who's smart enough to do that without undesirable unintended
consequences?
Tony, philosopher
http://www.geocities.com/trisector/
So many misconceptions, so little time.
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Author: Bret CahillBret Cahill Date: Dec 19, 2007 07:16
>> There are certain basic scientific facts which are not open to
>> question.
Depends on it the questioner is reasonable.
For example, some here will try to question a self evident truth, a
great absurdity.
>> 1) There is currently a climate change [warming] of the planet..
>> 2) There is a greenhouse effect attributable to certain atmospheric
>> gases, which has always existed.
>> 3) Carbon dioxide is one of those greenhouse gases.
> True, but this is what Mr. Richard Lindzen,Alfred P. Sloan Professor
> of Atmospheric Science at MIT, has to say about it:
> "There is also little disagreement that levels of carbon dioxide in
> the atmosphere have risen from about 280 parts per million by volume
> in the 19th century to about 387 ppmv today.
. . .
> There is the separate question as to the contribution of human
> activity -
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Author: Bret CahillBret Cahill Date: Dec 19, 2007 07:28
>�At this point it is hard to say if increasing CO2
> levels is a cause or an effect.
Let's hear more on this theory on how the 50%% increase in CO2 can be
an effect and not a cause.
Bret Cahill
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Author: Bret CahillBret Cahill Date: Dec 19, 2007 07:36
> 1) There is has always been cycles of climate change of the planet..
Nothing anywhere near this fast without disappearances of large
numbers of species.
. . .
> The important questions are:
> How significant is man's activities? �
The lion's share in the current event.
> Why is it assumed that warming is a bad thing?
Disappearances of vast amounts of land in the SE and massive
destruction of esturies.
The entire island nations will disappear.
> The current warming might be necessary to offset other forces,
And jumping off a cliff might straighten out your back.
Lazy rationalizing is not acceptable.
Bret Cahill
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Author: brian fletcherbrian fletcher Date: Dec 19, 2007 07:56
> There are certain basic scientific facts which are not open to
> question.
>
> 1) There is currently a climate change [warming] of the planet..
A few dacades effect over billions of years.
> 2) There is a greenhouse effect attributable to certain atmospheric
> gases, which has always existed.
Cause and effect have always existed. Judgment is in its infancy.
> 3) Carbon dioxide is one of those greenhouse gases.
One down....and counting.
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Author: MichaelNJMichaelNJ Date: Dec 19, 2007 09:03
On Dec 19, 10:28 am, Bret Cahill aol.com> wrote:>>�At this point it is hard to say if increasing CO2
>> levels is a cause or an effect.
>
> Let's hear more on this theory on how the 50%% increase in CO2 can be
> an effect and not a cause.
>
> Bret Cahill
The source of CO2 and other greehouse gasses (and the planets ability
to recylce them out of atmosphere is conjecture (based upon science).
The question is not limited to what produces these gaes, but most also
encompass why more are being trapped in the upper atmosphere (if in
fact this is happening). While the current trend seems to inicate
this is happening how do we know if this is a new trend or part of a
cylce. How do we know if some other event (like increased solar
activity) is not responsible for the root cause event.
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Author: MichaelNJMichaelNJ Date: Dec 19, 2007 09:10
On Dec 19, 10:36Â am, Bret Cahill aol.com> wrote:>> 1) There is has always been cycles of climate change of the planet..
>
> Nothing anywhere near this fast without disappearances of large
> numbers of species.
>
How can you know this? You give this answer based upon model that
dictate that climate change is tied to species die off.
> . . .
>
>> The important questions are:
>> How significant is man's activities? �
>
> The lion's share in the current event.
Once again, this is just a guess. I admit is seem like the best
guess, but still ....
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