"solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." The State of Nature
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"solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." The State of Nature         


Author: Immortalist
Date: Aug 23, 2008 22:01

Hobbes

During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in
awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as
is of every man against every man. In this state any person has a
natural right to do anything to preserve his own liberty or safety,
and life is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." ...in the
international arena, states behave as individuals do in a state of
nature.

Within the state of nature there is no injustice, since there is no
law, excepting certain natural precepts, the first of which is "that
every man ought to endeavour peace, as far as he has hope of obtaining
it". ; and the second is "that a man be willing, when others are so
too, as far forth as for peace and defence of himself he shall think
it necessary, to lay down this right to all things; and be contented
with so much liberty against other men as he would allow other men
against himself". . From this, ...the way out of the state of nature
[is] into civil government by mutual contract. (bellum omnium contra
omnes)

Locke
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Re: "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." The State of Nature         


Author: turtoni
Date: Aug 23, 2008 22:26

On Aug 24, 1:01 am, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hobbes
>
> During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in
> awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as
> is of every man against every man. In this state any person has a
> natural right to do anything to preserve his own liberty or safety,
> and life is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." ...in the
> international arena, states behave as individuals do in a state of
> nature.
>
> Within the state of nature there is no injustice, since there is no
> law, excepting certain natural precepts, the first of which is "that
> every man ought to endeavour peace, as far as he has hope of obtaining
> it". ; and the second is "that a man be willing, when others are so
> too, as far forth as for peace and defence of himself he shall think
> it necessary, to lay down this right to all things; and be contented
> with so much liberty against other men as he would allow other men
> against himself". . From this, ...the way out of the state of nature
> [is] into civil government by mutual contract. (bellum omnium contra ...
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Re: "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." The State of Nature         


Author: Immortalist
Date: Aug 23, 2008 22:54

On Aug 23, 10:26 pm, turtoni fastmail.net> wrote:
> On Aug 24, 1:01 am, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Hobbes
>
>> During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in
>> awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as
>> is of every man against every man. In this state any person has a
>> natural right to do anything to preserve his own liberty or safety,
>> and life is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." ...in the
>> international arena, states behave as individuals do in a state of
>> nature.
>
>> Within the state of nature there is no injustice, since there is no
>> law, excepting certain natural precepts, the first of which is "that
>> every man ought to endeavour peace, as far as he has hope of obtaining
>> it". ; and the second is "that a man be willing, when others are so
>> too, as far forth as for peace and defence of himself he shall think ...
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Re: "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." The State of Nature         


Author: turtoni
Date: Aug 23, 2008 22:58

On Aug 24, 1:54 am, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 23, 10:26 pm, turtoni fastmail.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Aug 24, 1:01 am, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Hobbes
>
>>> During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in
>>> awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as
>>> is of every man against every man. In this state any person has a
>>> natural right to do anything to preserve his own liberty or safety,
>>> and life is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." ...in the
>>> international arena, states behave as individuals do in a state of
>>> nature.
>
>>> Within the state of nature there is no injustice, since there is no ...
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Re: Changed to Dogs Necks         


Author: Immortalist
Date: Aug 23, 2008 23:09

On Aug 23, 10:58 pm, turtoni fastmail.net> wrote:
> On Aug 24, 1:54 am, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]
>
>
>>> i have something to funny relate:
>>> if you have a good sense of smell and you put your nose onto...
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Re: "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." The State of Nature         


Author: ZerkonX
Date: Aug 24, 2008 06:56

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:01:24 -0700, Immortalist wrote:
> During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe,
> they are in that condition which is called war;

When was this time other than a time of imagination?

Hobbes designs this fantasy history ("every man against every man") by
simply negating what he sees in this own time. The mid 1600's was yet
another era when the educated thought 'modern' civilization at it's
zenith. So the best way to 'understand' a more primitive time was just to
negate the virtues of the present time. Who's to know?
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