Before the internet corporations, specifically corp. CEOs, could tell
Congress one thing ("there's a labor shortage") and employees the
exact opposite ("you'll work that unpaid overtime because I can
replace you so fast it'll make your head spin") and few would notice.

Now in the info age both statements can be placed side by side so it
looks like maybe they believe Americans are genetically inferior and
cannot be educated to compete with foreigners.

But no one believes anyone believes that. It's not even politically
correct.

What is obvious to more and more people is that, to preserve the
status quo, the old order would do anything to keep from educating the
American public.

Gush hype nekked nazi flagburner parades?

Certainly.

Free speech on economic issues?

No way.

There's really no fig leaf exit for the frauds so they don't even try.

Instead they sit around in a state of denial, letting democracy be
reintroduced by the internet willy nilly without any guidance.

On Jul 13, 6:26 pm, Bret Cahill aol.com> wrote:

On Jul 13, 6:26 pm, Bret Cahill aol.com> wrote:

Sure and here's a good example of it:

"Microsoft, along with other high-tech companies, has been a vocal
supporter of legislation that would increase the number of foreign
workers allowed to stay in the U.S."

However, not making much headway with Congress which is paralyzed by
precisely the kind of xenophobia Brat expresses here (and in some of
the comments to this article) "Microsoft will open a software
development office in Vancouver, Canada, later this year, in part as a
way to retain talented workers who can't stay in the U.S. because of
immigration laws."

http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/07/05/New-Microsoft-Vancouver-office-responds...

http://tinylink.com/?qjSdOFrK33

Fred Weiss

Same as it was done the first time, by citing the greatest thinkers
and most accomplished statesmen of all time including _their_ time.

Plato, Montesquieu, Madison, Jefferson, etc.

Being a populist only means you support everyone having a share in
deciding national economic policy; It does _not_ mean you believe
everyone is a political philosopher.

Since then there have been more. We can add to the list DeTocqueville
and Joseph Heller.

Some are even still alive:

Former U. S. Senator Bob Graham
Newsweek editor Eleanor Clift
Former President Bill Clinton

Bret Cahill

There's a real societal benefit to people switching cultures or fields
because when you first see something you have valuable insights that
the natives or long term students don't have.

I keep hearing about Americans moving to other countries to work and
preferring it over there. Some of this certainly has to do with the
U. S. job shortage scam. In absolute transcultural terms it _really
is_ better over there. I recently met a guy who was stationed in
Germany and he said if he had a job there he'ld move back
immediately. He then said exactly what I suspected: "Everyone is
employed." They don't have an artificial job shortage.

But there's no question that Americans are more valuable over there
than here simply because of the value of mixing cultures. Harvard no
longer graduates anyone who hasn't traveled overseas.

So my complaint isn't with foreign workers but that everyone here
doesn't benefit from them equally and, even worse, that there are
trillions in productivity wasted every year because of the ignorance
of the public.

On Jul 13, 8:36 pm, Ed earthlink.net> wrote:

I liked Bret's original response:

"letting democracy be
reintroduced by the internet willy nilly without any guidance. "

There is no "guide".

Why is guide needed.

I like the notion of Democracy being reinvented "willy nilly".

The huge mess known as the internet, no central, unlimited
information, equal access....
(dang, people distracting my train of thought!)
...self organizing systems. The internet self organizing into the
ultimate Democratic system.

On Jul 14, 2:07 pm, GatherNoMoss yahoo.com> wrote:

I see this scientific show on PBS, I think.

It discusses the seemingly orchestrated movements in flocks of birds,
or schools fish when they avoid predators...."Emergence".

All that's needed are a few simple rules followed by all.

Our redefined Democracy needs only a few rules, and then mass
interaction, decentralized (or it wouldn't be democracy, would it ?),
freedom of information (or it will be inefficient), critical thinking
among the citizenry (or it will be mislead).

What would result would be a dynamic democracy as flexable and
respnsive as a flock of birds in flight.

The ultimate, ultimate !

*****In philosophy, systems theory and the sciences, emergence refers
to the way complex systems and patterns, such as those that form a
hurricane, arise out of a multiplicity of relatively simple
interactions. Like intelligence in the field of AI, or agents in
distributed artificial intelligence, emergence is central to the
physics of complex systems and yet very controversial.

On Jul 14, 1:49 pm, Bret Cahill aol.com> wrote:

Only 8.8%% unemployment which is slighter higher than Michael Moore's
other "worker's paradise", France (with its "free" health care). Now,
that's actually an improvement. It was over 12%% under the Socialists -
at levels not seen since the 1930's - when Merkel took office.

Curiously, in a problem only possible in a welfare state, Germany at
the very same time is suffering from a serious shortage of skilled
workers.

Now, in contrast, while we supposedly "ship jobs overseas" our
unemployment is under 5%%. Tis a puzzlement.

What do you make of that, Brat?

Fred Weiss

They don't have any fundies over there so the dole is the price of
freedom.

There is no free lunch on liberty.

Bret Cahill

On Jul 14, 2:57 pm, Bret Cahill aol.com> wrote:

You're way too deep for me, Brat.

Mebbe you'd care to elaborate.

Remember, I'm jez one of them right-ard "market" economists for whom
you have so much contempt.

Fred Weiss