When Ptolemy observed the sun in the sky what he "saw" was the sun
revolving around the earth.
What he was looking at was the earth revolving, though he did not
realise this.
Greater and more courageous minds, such as Aristarchus, Copurnicus and
Galilei reconciled the dichotomy and abandoned the naive notion that
"what you see is what you get".
It takes an act of maturity to realise that what you see is not the
same thing as what you are looking at.
Kant described this as the Copurnican Revolution; as growing up in the
world: to reject the voice of ancient authority and to make up your
own mind about the underlying noumenal world that lies behind the
everyday phenomona that we observe.
Those that fail to make the mental jump as stuck in that nether world
of self evident pixies and fairies of...

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 10:21:37 -0700 (PDT), chazwin yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 10:41:04 -0700, Sir Frederick
fuzzysys.com> wrote:

Excuse me, but what can you possibly mean by consciousness itself
being an illusion? In what sense than there be an illusion with-
out there being a consciousness to be illuded by it? And are you
claiming not to be conscious yourself?

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 20:31:40 +0100, Angus Rodgers bigfoot.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:02:31 -0700, Sir Frederick
fuzzysys.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:38:36 +0100, Angus Rodgers bigfoot.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:02:47 -0700, Sir Frederick
fuzzysys.com> wrote:

As a fan of The Matrix (but not its sequels), I'm quite happy with
the idea that much that is experienced as "reality" is (in reality,
so to speak!) an illusion; but the experience of an illusion is not
itself an illusion! There can't even be an illusion unless someone
experiences it!

It embarrasses me to write this, because it's so obvious. Have I
completely missed your point, or something?

chazwin wrote:

On Apr 13, 2:21 am, chazwin yahoo.com> wrote:

Yeah yeah yeah who gives a flying fuck about that chazzz?

The question is, when the rest of the world was seeing two jets slam
into a couple of sky-scrappers what the fuck were the Kantians looking
at?

or

If you can feel it, touch it, hear it, smell it, then why, or how the
fuck is what you're eating feeling touching smelling breaking mending
bending not what you're also seeing and looking at?

Your ears nose hands skin are not fucking ornaments and decorations
chazzzzz soo why do ewes Kantians treat them as such?

MG

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:10:41 +0100, Angus Rodgers bigfoot.com> wrote: